What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

Hello! I live in Australia. On 01 Oct I sold a personal, valuable and authentic Louis Vuitton Speedy bag for $780+$50 shipping to a buyer located in the United States. The listing item said the seller does not accept returns, unless the item is not as described. About 5 days after the buyer received the item, they opened a refund request with no details. Despite asking for details, I got no further message from the buyer.

On October 18, eBay sent me a message asking I provide the buyer with a return label within four business days. That same day, eBay also informed me that a return case (Case # 5325049703) had been created and put on hold until October 23, to allow the buyer to provide further information. This mixed messaging from eBay left me perplexed and concerned about the handling of the situation and I reported the buyer transaction to eBay

To my dismay, on Oct 23 eBay refunded the buyer in full, withheld $89.76 payout pending from another sale and plans to deduct a further $41.12 from my bank account. Basically eBay seems intent on charging me about 15% commission for the sale that it refunded. Worse - it is unclear what has happened to the valuable Louis Vuitton bag in question. I have not been given the option to provide a return label to the buyer, nor have I received any communication regarding the whereabouts of the item. In essence, eBay has effectively taken possession of my valuable bag, provided it to the buyer without due process, and is now seeking additional money from me.

The icing on the cake is that the webpage to appeal the case is not working. I've tried two computers and three browsers, and the 'Submit Appeal' button stays grayed out: https://www.ebay.com.au/ReturnCase/5325049703/AppealRequest

So how can I get my item back and appeal this decision?

Message 1 of 28
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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

Please read the following links to reduce the chance of being caught out again

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/return-postage-sellers?id=4703#section...

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115#s...

 

And update your postage options to exclude international buyers until you have a bit more experience.

Message 11 of 28
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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

Not sure what your issue is.  You failed to issue return postage in the required timeframe (you admit it in your rambles).  No point muddying the waters with all your other stuff.   You had one simple thing to do, you didn't.

 

If you are going to play in the big world of international sales,  or any sales really,  learn how they work.

 

Ebay hasnt given the item to the buyer, you have by not following process.

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

Obviously the whole process has been confusing for you. I get the feeling you were under the impression a real person at ebay was overseeing your case. Just about everything on ebay is automated & when you are given a date, that pretty much means you have to have taken some action by then.

 

I can't know for sure, but your feedback score of 13 on this account suggests you may be fairly new to ebay buying & selling. If that is the case, it may not be a good idea to be listing an item worth over $800, especially one you're willing to post overseas. You'd be much better off limiting sales to Australia only. That way, if someone does say an item isn't as described, you can easily issue a return postage label. The process is not so easy if it is an overseas customer.

I hate to say this, but some scammers will see a newish seller with a high priced item and know that there is a possibility they may be able to get a refund plus keep the goods if the seller isn't savvy enough to know the ropes. You're not the first person it has happened to. Yes, the buyer gets to keep the item unless you provide postage. But now that it is all closed as far as ebay is concerned, I am not sure how much I would trust this buyer in private negotiations. Message them and sound them out.

If you want to contact ebay about an appeal, don't do it via message. Go to chat help. It's via text but you'll eventually get a real person.

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

Thanks!! Your's has been the most helpful reply. My wife and I have been buying and selling here for over a decade  (using this, and a second profile). We made international sales, but not such a high-value item.  

I get the feeling you were under the impression a real person at ebay was overseeing your case. Just about everything on ebay is automated & when you are given a date, that pretty much means you have to have taken some action by then.

Yes, that was my impression. Automated or not, if the eBay return case process does not actually review of evidence behind the buyer claim, eBay are misrepresenting the 'review' service they provide. (eBay message on Oct 18: "Case #5325049703: We’re reviewing the buyer’s return"). 

Yes, if an item does not match description, a refund must be made. But the buyer claim must be at least reviewed. Instead, in communication today, eBay confirmed that my case "review" was not to review the buyer's claim. Instead, it was purely my "chance to provide the buyer a return label". So there was no real review done. Neither was it communciated that the ostensible review was just a "chance to provide the buyer a return label"

"The buyer reached out to us after this timeframe and we gave you 5 more days, considering this as a chance to provide your buyer a return label. However, the buyer still didn’t hear from you. Because of this, the case closed and a refund was issued to your buyer."


Instead, eBay advised me the return case review was going "on hold" pending documentation from the buyer. Going "on hold" implies the return process and any associated deadlines are on hold too. Keeping those deadlines ticking along while no review was carried out, nor communication that the "review" period was only to provide return postage was misrepresentation.  

 

eBay advised me repeatedly that buying a return label was an option (in fact, they said so today in the appeal: "Since the shipping label was not provided to the buyer, we decided to keep our decision."). This too is misrepresentation because return labels are NOT available to international sellers. Repeatedly stating labels are available sets up the seller for failure against an impossible obligation -- completing an international payment (after estimating postage, duty, customs etc) outside of eBay in the same timeframe of a US seller. What was I supposed to do -- use Western Union?

eBay charged a commission of $130.88 on the refunded item. When askedto explain, eBay communicated this to me on 25 Oct: 
"2. Your item is sold technically. We have given you a chance to take action on the case. Since eBay resolves the case for you the final value fee cannot be credited back."

Apart from the misrepresentations above, how can eBay claim "the item [was] sold technically" when it is refunded? A refund is the opposite of a sale. 


My return review case was specifically put "on hold" until after the return deadline expired. This is curious. The fact the webpage to file a case appeal was disabled (tested by multiple people) until I complained on Twitter is stretching coincidence. That raises the possibility of a dark pattern being exploited by bad actors within eBay unbeknownst to eBay.  Anyway, that's just a possiblity. 

Between item value, eBay fees and postage spent, I'm already out $1000.  I've reached out to the buyer requesting a return and offering postage.  I've also asked eBay whether they told the buyer, explicity or by implication, the buyer can keep my goods without returning them. eBay did say "In case they agree to return the item, you can provide them with a shipping label or shipping charge. Most buyers easily agree to these options since they already got their refund." But I have asked eBay to make its position clear in writing about who holds current title to the goods. That's the least they can do as an intermediatory. 

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

You really need to do some  research into international selling and the pitfalls/risks involved.   Research how to get things free online, it may help you protect yourself in the future.

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

I think your latest novel, just highlights the fact that you have chosen to cherry pick bits of the process that you agree with to suit your side of the situation,  but ignores the basic concept that you didnt follow the process.

 

As for your complaint about them still charging a commission,  yes you sold the item on the Ebay platform, as such Commission is payable as they provided the service.   But beyond that they had to try to go through the effort of trying to facilitate a return, which you didnt do, than make the refund because of your failure.  In my opinion in circumstances such as this where a seller fails in their obligation,  Ebay should be able to charge an additional fee for the time and effort.  sellers should not be allowed to get of scott free because they decide they don't want to complete their obligation.

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

I can feel your pain.

If I did not frequent these boards regularly, I probably would have been a bit confused too.

Ebay instructions should be crystal clear, but more than that, there should be room for some flexibility.

Did ebay send a reminder, along the lines of  eg This case is closing on 23 Oct and you will need to have taken action to resolve it by then by arranging postage or ebay will step in and may award a refund to buyer without return of the item.

 

It sounds as if you can now appeal but the problem ebay has is they have refunded the buyer so if you win an appeal, that $800+ comes out of ebay's coffers, they can't get the money back from the buyer, as far as I know. So I think they will resist awarding it to you. Appeal all the same.

Where ebay goes wrong (I believe) is that they so easily allow a buyer to win a claim of not as described.

In the original claim, were you able to upload evidence of authenticity or did the buyer offer any reason why they thought it not as described?  I do understand that in cases of not as described, ebay more or less has to take a buyer's word for it as they can't personally see the items, but I do think a buyer should have to at the very least state why something is not as described. Or provide photos, if possible.

I know you can't provide a return label for an international sale but I think ebay expects you to communicate with buyer and arrange to pay the return postage before the deadline. There's another thread here but on the Buying board, the title of it is How to prove when buyer claims I sent the wrong item.

It might be an interesting read for you as this seller also got scammed but ended winning an appeal I think it was. It was an international sale too. But if you read that thread, the buyer quoted $100 or some such sum needed for return postage, when it had only cost the seller about $45 to post it.

Unfortunately the bottom line here with you is you have probably lost your money for good. I am so sorry to hear it. But if you keep selling on ebay, just keep in mind that in a dispute their dates are cut off dates & you as seller have to have acted by then.

 

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?


@springyzone wrote:

 

Did ebay send a reminder, along the lines of  eg This case is closing on 23 Oct and you will need to have taken action to resolve it by then by arranging postage or ebay will step in and may award a refund to buyer without return of the item.

 

Why should they,  if the seller can't even do a simple task in the prescribed time frame,  what happened to personal responsibility.   Sellers shouldnt need to be treated as children and reminded every step of the way.

 

 

 

It might be an interesting read for you as this seller also got scammed but ended winning an appeal I think it was. It was an international sale too. But if you read that thread, the buyer quoted $100 or some such sum needed for return postage, when it had only cost the seller about $45 to post it.

 

Postage costs vary between countries,  simple as 1, 2 and 3.   Yes $100 sounds excessive,   I got something sent from the US (not Ebay postage, but privately),   and it cost nearly 2/3rd's more than when I sent it back.  Dont compare apples with oranges.


 

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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?


@sugar249 wrote:

@springyzone wrote:

 

Did ebay send a reminder, along the lines of  eg This case is closing on 23 Oct and you will need to have taken action to resolve it by then by arranging postage or ebay will step in and may award a refund to buyer without return of the item.

 

Why should they,  if the seller can't even do a simple task in the prescribed time frame,  what happened to personal responsibility.   Sellers shouldnt need to be treated as children and reminded every step of the way.

 

I think the problem is the seller in this case was confused and didn't realise that a case being put on hold till then meant the same as it closing then.

I'm all for reminders. In a perfect world we wouldn't need them but I have found most places these days send reminders. Everywhere from the library to the vets. I get them constantly from online sites too. Why not ebay?

I used to teach, I can tell you now it was just as often the parents who needed reminders as the kids & that was fine. Life gets busy. Any reminder would be automated with ebay anyway so no extra costs involved.

 

 

 

It might be an interesting read for you as this seller also got scammed but ended winning an appeal I think it was. It was an international sale too. But if you read that thread, the buyer quoted $100 or some such sum needed for return postage, when it had only cost the seller about $45 to post it.

 

Postage costs vary between countries,  simple as 1, 2 and 3.   Yes $100 sounds excessive,   I got something sent from the US (not Ebay postage, but privately),   and it cost nearly 2/3rd's more than when I sent it back.  Dont compare apples with oranges.

 

I'm not. I certainly don't expect postage amounts to equate exactly, and I am aware that they may be quite a bit higher in some countries than in others but I can smell scam all over the $100 claim. If you recall, that buyer provided no documentary proof or screenshots.


 


 

Message 19 of 28
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Re: What recourse do I have when eBay "gives" an item to a buyer?

Hi Sugar,  ebay do now charge a dispute resolution fee,  $22 from memory, payable when a seller fails to resolve a dispute and ebay finds in buyers favour.

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