paypal makes an interesting change of policy

[satans-angel64]

So just read the new policy from paypal for australian sellers.

in regards to help payments...  paypal are now saying sellers are not to send / post / release goods until the hold on a payment is over.

There goes ebay's right to demand sellers send goods when payments are held for 21 days.

Seeing as the payment is in your paypal, not in ebay's control, they legally cannot demand sellers send items before paypal releases the payment into your account.

[satans-angel64]

ok lets talk about copy necks.. fender made the fender head stock which means every single other guitar company that uses that shape is a copy. and counterfeit..a counterfeit is only a counterfeit until the original designer makes a claim that it is a counterfeit, if the original designer takes no legal action no law enforcement has legal right to intervere..it's a civil matter and only the original designer can take action...you really should understand thigs before you go making statements.

[imastawka]

I haven't told you how to sell.

I've just given links, and asked for you to do the same, to legitimize what you're claiming

[gumleaf_goodies]

It might interest you to know that many of the forum regulars have a posting ID - unconnected with any buying or selling IDs. 

[shoppingbag*]

I've looked at the link twice and cannot see what you are referring to.  I cannot see that anything has changed.

[countessalmirena]

gutterpunkz, you've posted great information that is getting lost probably because of the way this board removes some html in copy-pasted text. I'm not sure how it happened, but certainly it's hard to know how <br />, <p> </p>, <div> </div>, <span> </span>, <ul> <li> </li> </ul> and so on could constitute such extreme danger!

So... I'm quoting your post with fixed-up code:

---

@gutterpunkz05 wrote:

When do we hold funds?

We hold funds when:

• We need to ensure the integrity of a transaction;
• We believe that there’s a risk associated with you or your account;
• You receive a dispute, claim, chargeback or reversal in relation to any funds received into your account;
• A marketplace or third party application where PayPal is offered requests that we do so (if you have questions about why the marketplaces requested the hold, you will need to contact the marketplace or third party directly);
• You do not meet certain seller or risk standards when listing on eBay;
• You are a new seller or have a limited history with eBay; or
• We need to comply with the law.
   

What do we consider before holding funds?

Before holding funds, we consider a number of factors, including information available to us from both internal sources and third parties, such as:

• Information you provide us, such as your business history and financial details;
• Publicly available information;
• Your industry;
• Your selling activity;
• Past disputes or dissatisfaction of your customers;
• Information we receive from related third parties;
• Whether the funds are related to an irregular or unusual transaction; and
• Other related information.

The more you use your account, the more we know about your activity. As such, our risk assessment may change and we may increase or decrease the amount of funds we hold based on that changed assessment.

How long do we hold funds?

For transaction holds and release amounts: Funds are usually held for up to 21 days from the date the payment was received into your PayPal account. Funds may be held for longer than 21 days if:

• We believe that the increased risk associated with you or your account remains after 21 days;
• If you are a seller, we expect the delivery time of your goods or services to be longer than 21 days;
• You receive a dispute, claim, chargeback or reversal relating to the transaction subject to the hold; and/or
• We have taken another action permitted by this agreement, such as when you are required to verify your identity.

We may release a hold earlier than 21 days where we reasonably believe that the relevant transaction has successfully completed. Any earlier release is at our sole discretion. Funds held for buyer disputes may not be released until we consider the dispute resolved (but no longer than 180 days).

Funds held for buyer disputes may not be released until we consider the dispute resolved (but no longer than 180 days).

---

– from Restricted Activities and Holds, PayPal User Agreement

[padi*0409]

---

@satans-angel64 wrote:
I always do... ever been told I can't do that by ebay.. u only have to list in auction description items wont be sent until funds have been cleared, buyer bids under those terms, ebay can't do anything about it..it's a fairly simple thing, look it up under contract law.

---

Then at least increase your handling time to 21 days so that buyers have a reasonable idea of how long it will take you to post to them. As it stands you are lying on your handling times.

As Stawks has noted your negs do you no favours at all and more negs or defects will likely close down your illustrious selling career on this ID.

[shoppingbag*]

There is no new policy, just someone looking for a fight.

[countessalmirena]

@satans-angel64,

Since PayPal say that they ❝hold funds when

• We need to ensure the integrity of a transaction;
• We believe that there’s a risk associated with you or your account;
• You receive a dispute, claim, chargeback or reversal in relation to any funds received into your account;
• A marketplace or third party application where PayPal is offered requests that we do so (if you have questions about why the marketplaces requested the hold, you will need to contact the marketplace or third party directly);
• You do not meet certain seller or risk standards when listing on eBay;
• You are a new seller or have a limited history with eBay; or
• We need to comply with the law❞

... surely the solution is possible to find ...?

• Make sure that you provide PayPal evidence of the integrity of the transaction
• Show PayPal that there is no risk associated with you or your account
• Avoid behaviours in your selling that lead to disputes, claims, chargebacks or reversals of funds
• Avoid behaviours that lead to eBay requesting that PayPal continue any hold on your funds
• Meet every seller/risk standard when you list on eBay
• Increase your selling history on eBay
• Do nothing that suggests your selling is not in compliance with the law.

Perhaps some of these points apply to your selling - is that possible?

From what I understand (and I don't know the ins and outs of it), there are several seller behaviours that might lead eBay and PayPal (potentially if not already actually) to hold your funds.

If you have a 3-day handling time, and you don't send for at least 21 days, you've already breached eBay policy, plus put your buyers off-side. If however you want to avoid sending items for 21 days, then you should increase your handling time to reflect this. At least then your buyers would be aware of your real handling time. Don't lie to your buyers; it only infuriates them and leads them to speak poorly of you rather than recommend you.

Just as a sideline... I know that the US Patent and Trademark Office decided against Fender re the guitar body shape, but as far as I'm aware, there isn't a recent decision concerning the headstock. Didn't CBS make a dog's breakfast of the shape after acquiring Fender? Interestingly, Leo Fender seems to have become so upset by what CBS did to the guitars that bore his brand name that he co-formed G&L Guitars and began producing quality guitars with barely a token change to the headstock; Fender took no action in respect of this BUT they did aggressively pursue a whole ream of other guitar markers (especially in the 70s and 80s) who were making imitations or copies. The C&Ds went out like snowflakes in winter, with legal action for copyright and trademark infringement ending up in fines from the companies to Fender, plus (the big positive for Fender) a ban of all of these copies from being sold in the US.

So... I don't know about the Fender-shaped headstock in terms of whether it's a permitted shape. It's worth following up with a lawyer specialising in international trademark infringement. Potentially risky, though.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand:

• Make sure that you provide PayPal evidence of the integrity of the transaction - possiblly not an issue
• Show PayPal that there is no risk associated with you or your account - don't cause red flags to be raised by improving the ratio of satisfied customers in comparison with your total customers
• Avoid behaviours in your selling that lead to disputes, claims, chargebacks or reversals of funds - this is the big one. Holding back on sending items once the buyer has paid, with the excuse that PayPal continue to hold your funds - is based on a specious argument, and only perpetuates the holds on your account. Get a good pattern of sending within your stated handling time. Extend your handling time if you need to.
• Avoid behaviours that lead to eBay requesting that PayPal continue any hold on your funds - I suspect this is related to the above.
• Meet every seller/risk standard when you list on eBay - and this is an important one to take into account! It's not about whether you are right or wrong; it's about whether eBay considers you a risk. You have to assure eBay by your compiance with eBay policies and your meeting or exceeding standards that eBay sets for sellers (at least, the achievable ones) that you are a low- or no-risk seller.
• Increase your selling history on eBay - make sure it is a good selling history where you don't give buyers any reason to mark down your DSRs or open disputes
• Do nothing that suggests your selling is not in compliance with the law - i.e., make sure what you sell isn't stepping on the toes of big companies whose "interest" is not desirable in terms of showing that one is not a risk.

If your selling behaviour marks you as a low-risk seller with a good history, you shouldn't have the 21-day hold on your funds and then you'll not feel compelled (hopefully) to look at eBay and PayPal with a combative perspective. If you continue to refuse to send items for 21 days past the date of purchase, you are unlikely to reach that level where you're marked as a low-risk seller with a good history. That means the power to change the issue of holds is in your hands. You can make or break it by how you act as a seller.

Best of luck - I hope you make good decisions.

[countessalmirena]

Ah!

I think I see what the OP may have been referring to. I think it's possible he has misinterpreted the meaning.

❝Payment review

PayPal reviews certain potentially high-risk transactions.  If PayPal determines, in its sole discretion, that a transaction is high-risk, we may place a hold on the payment and provide notice to you to delay shipping of the item.  PayPal will conduct a review and either complete or cancel the payment.  If the payment is completed, PayPal will provide notice to you to ship the item.  Otherwise, PayPal will cancel the payment and the funds will be returned to the buyer, unless we are legally required to take other action.  All payments that complete this payment review will be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection if they meet the PayPal Seller Protection requirements.  We will notify you about payment reviews by email and/or through your PayPal account.❞ – Selling and Accepting Payments (PayPal User Agreement)

This advises the seller that the payment might be on hold and not to ship the item yet WHEN PAYPAL DETERMINES THAT THE TRANSACTION ITSELF IS HIGH-RISK... It's not the same thing as when a new seller or a seller whose performance is deemed to pose risk has a 21-day-hold. If the OP receives notice from PayPal that he should delay shipping of the item, that's another issue. In that case of course he can and should refuse to ship until he gets the all-clear from PayPal.

Also of importance on that same page:

❝If you’re a seller on a marketplace or through a third party application where PayPal is offered, you must comply with any rules that apply to the marketplace’s or the third party application’s buyer protection policy (or equivalent) for sales you make through that forum.❞

In other words, the seller must comply with eBay's policies. That means that since eBay specifically state that ❝If PayPal doesn't make your funds available immediately from payments for an item you sold, you're not allowed to hold shipment until the funds are released,❞ the seller must comply with this. It isn't a contradiction with the potentially high-risk transactions caveat in PayPal's UA - different thing entirely. I hope the OP has realised this.

[gutterpunkz05]

Thanks countess , it was a bit strange, as the copy previewed correct but did not post as viewed.  was going to see about fixing it or just seeing about a link, but got called away.  By my quick read, I don't see it helping the OP's cause at all.

That is taken from the new paypal policy to come into effect  28th of March 2019