After winning bid seller withdrew item without apology then accuses me of abuse..!

[balibago_baz]

/RANT-ON

G'day Everyone... The detailed verbatim messages# 1 to 8 below tell the full story... but here is the abridged version..!

Listing Info: Secondhand Steelcraft Strider Plus 4 Pram. Seller has only sold 1 other item and was given negative feedback and appears sale was not finalised..!

Abridged Info: 2 messages re item condition sent prior to end of Auction - No reply to either..! - Bid on item and win (was only bidder) - 2 messages sent trying to make contact to pick up and pay... - Received a very short 1 line message with very little detail and no form of an apology saying the item is not for sale..! - I review Community Forum to get an idea of what I should do given this situation (did not post, just reviewed similar issues) - Message sent to seller to clarify they were withdrawing the item, my displeasure at what they had done and would result in negative feedback being given..! - Seller replies within the hour to confirm the item will not be sold, accuses me of being abusive towards them, says I can leave my useless feedback, threatens to report me to eBay for being abusive towards them should I make contact again and again no form of an apology..! - Knowing better then to send a reply whilst I was hot under the collar as I was none to happy about being accused of something I didn't do and what they had done, I left it a few days before I replied...  - There has been no further contact - Feedback was given today..!

THE FULL VERSION...

MESSAGE#: 1
From: Buyer
To: Seller
Sent Date: 14-Aug-13 21:07 AEST
Hi... I just wanted to clarify a few details about your listing... Could you provide a bit of a description of the stroller's condition please..? (Excellent, V.Good, General wear & tare marks, Fair etc) How old it is..? Any marks, tears or stains in the fabric..? Split/Broken/missing plastic or rubber parts etc..? Any additional accessories included..?

Thanks for your time and good luck with the listing...

Regards,

Barry A.

MESSAGE#: 2
From: Buyer
To: Seller
Sent Date: 18-Aug-13 02:09 AEST
Hi, I sent a message a few days ago although there has not been a reply or any addition to the listing with a description of the pram's condition... As yet there have not been any bids...

The starting price is reasonable if the pram is in good condition and I'd be prepared to place a bid if I had a better idea of how old the pram is, and what condition it is in... It appears to be in pretty good condition in the pics but they are not very large pics and don't show the condition up close...

Hope you will be able to provide the info before the auction ends so I can make a decision to place a bid...

Regards,

Barry A

MESSAGE#: 3
From: Buyer
To: Seller
Sent Date: 18-Aug-13 16:15 AEST
Hi D*******, Although there was no reply to my 2 requests about the condition of the stroller, I have taken the chance and made the winning bid on your listing...

Could you please advise me the address and what time tomorrow would be suitable to pick up the stroller..? Payment will be COD.

Regards,

Barry A

MESSAGE#: 4 - Invoice Request (Sent as there was no reply for over 24 hours)
From: Buyer
To: Seller
Sent Date: 19-Aug-13 18:50 AEST
Hi D*******, Could you please contact me re pick-up and payment of the Strider Plus 4 Stroller... As I am from the Central Coast, I had hoped to pick it up today because I was in Sydney collecting other items, although no contact has been made as yet. It would help me to know when I can pick it up so I can make arrangements to be available at a time that is suitable for you... Look forward to hearing from you...

Regards,

Barry A

MESSAGE#: 5
From: Seller
To: Buyer
Sent Date: 20-Aug-13 07:03:24 AEST
Hi this item is not for sale my account was accessed by an unauthorized person and listed without my consent.

MESSAGE#: 6
From: Buyer
To: Seller
Sent Date: 20-Aug-13 16:06 AEST
Hello D*******, so you are going to renege on the sale and have the listing cancelled..? I must say this is going to be nice and upsetting for my pregnant wife who is due in about 5 weeks when I have to let her know she can't have the stroller she thought she had won..! The advice of the eBay Community Forum in this situation strongly recommends to leave feedback inline with the outcome of your refusal to honor the agreement to sell the item to the winning bidder..! Given the how upset my wife will be due to the thoughtless listing of the stroller by this "unauthorized person" and your subsequent refusal to honor the sale at our winning bid price, my feedback will be appropriate as I am less then impressed with this outcome and to match our disappointment..! Also, I don't know why you have marked the item as "Posted" when it should have been cancelled. Please contact eBay Customer Support and proceed with having the listing cancelled so I can have my say when they contact me and subsequently provide our feedback..!

Regards,

Barry A.

MESSAGE#: 7
From: Seller
To: Buyer
Sent Date: 20-Aug-13 16:40:45 AEST
Someone who had access to my account has posted this sale as previously advised!

I myself am 6 months pregnant and have no need to sell this pram i have only recently purchased myself. Hence I'm not completing this UNAUTHORIZED SALE!
Whilst I feel for your wife as this is my first baby and have had to but this pram second hand also, I don't believe your abusive messages are necessary!

I'm not sure how to cancel the sale so I have proceeded as best I know. I will contact customer service to have the issue rectified so that you can leave your useless feedback!

Might I suggest you fill your time looking for a new pram rather than abusing people via eBay msgs!

Do not contact me any further or I will report you for abuse!

MESSAGE#: 8 (Was sent in 3 parts due to length..!)
From: Buyer
To: Seller
Sent Date: 22-Aug-13 16:32 AEST
Hi D*******, could you please point out exactly what I said that is abusive in nature..? I'm at a loss as to how you could possibly view any of my messages as abusive in anyway whatsoever..! There is not a single word that would fall into a category of being profane, vulgar or obscene in any message I've sent you and you make it sound as if I've sent you several abusive messages..! Believe me, after 20+ years in Corrections, I could come up with abuse that would leave many eBay members at a loss for words and leave them in no doubt they had been abused..! At best, my last message may have been a little "blunt" or "short" from a buyer who has been informed that the item they had thought they had won at auction is being withdrawn by the seller without so much as any form of apology at all... and besides, all messages prior to the last message were simply requests about the condition of the pram and how to proceed with pick up and payment after the winning bid... as if anyone would be abusive towards an eBay member they were buying an item from..!

Given that the following is from the eBay Feedback Policy and what they may or may not remove from feedback comments (Keep in mind these are eBay's words NOT mine)... Feedback may be removed if... "The feedback comment contains profane, vulgar, obscene, or racist language or adult material. Inflammatory language, such as "fraud, liar, cheater, scam artist, con man" etc., while strongly discouraged, will not be removed under the Feedback Abuse policy..."

At best, you might have misconstrued my message as some kind of veiled threat about the feedback I intend to leave... Let me assure you it was not a threat at all... I was simply being "up front" so you were aware of my intentions and not taken by surprise... it was clearly NOT a threat along the lines of "sell me the pram or else..!" So if you feel I've been abusive towards you in any way, please don't hesitate to report me to eBay Customer Support and we'll let them review my messages and decide if I've been abusive towards you or not..!

As for the feedback, personally I don't believe Feedback is as "useless" as you do..! I have generally found it to be a very useful tool... I was in fact dubious about bidding on your listing given that the only other item you had listed as a seller had negative feedback against it and appears that the sale did not proceed... When items are listed, the seller is supposed to set the price at the minimum they are willing to accept and sell the item... often sellers will list an item they are having difficulty selling at a low price in the hope that when bidding gets under way that the price will meet and exceed their minimum "buy price" and if it doesn't, they will renege on the auction, give an excuse and not follow through and refuse a to honor the agreement to sell the item to the winning bidder.

There is nothing eBay can do to force the seller to adhere to and honor the agreement to sell their item, although it is viewed very dimly by eBay as it gives eBay a bad image and causes inconvenience to the buyer, particularly if they make payment for the item they expect to be posted/shipped and as in this instance, I have missed several listings for prams which were listed as being in excellent condition with little use that I could have bid on whilst clearing up this issue..! Quite frankly, why some "unauthorised person" in your household has used your eBay account and would go to the trouble of uploading photos and listing your pram on eBay when you are still pregnant and have not yet used it is beyond me..!

My suggestion to you would be to change you eBay password to ensure the unauthorised person does not have access to do this again..!

Again, feel free to report me as you have advised any further contact from me and you would anyway... eBay expects members to resolve issues between them prior to Customer Support stepping in and I don't have an issue answering their inquiries into this issue at all...

Bye,

Barry A

* * * END OF CONTACT WITH SELLER  * * *

Feedback given today: BUYER BEWARE! Reneged & withdrew item! Accused me of abusing her! STEER CLEAR

Score: 1 star on all..!

So basically I just want some feedback to know if anyone feels my messages were abusive in any way and would there have been a better or another way to go about it..?

Also, I think this seller should be reported to eBay for poor performance an possibly have their account restricted in some way..! It appears that they may be listing lower then a price they are willing to accept and hope that once bidding starts they will get or exceed that price and then if it doesn't they come up with an excuse to withdraw from the sale... Their sales record isn't looking to good thus far..! Is this what I should do..? If yes, I've has a quick look and I'm not 100% sure how to do it correctly... A quick guide would be very much appreciated indeed...

I look forward to feedback from the community (I hope LoL)... I've worked hard to keep my 100% FB Rating over the years and I've had several smaller issues & even 3 unpaid item strikes from 1 seller and been able to solve them all without issue... Just pisses me off that it seems I'm obliged to buy an item if I win yet the seller doesn't have any obligation to honor the agreement to sell their item..! Add to that being accused of being abusive and it didn't sit well for me at all..!

Good news is, wifey & I are about to jump in the car and go pick up a pram from another eBay seller that is supposed to be in excellent condition..!

Cheers,

Barry A...

/RANT=OFF 

[*crikey*mate*]

OK, for next time, best not to mention feedback, because eBay can and do read the messages when required, and they don't the discussion of feedback very much. (It's kinda like bribery - if you don't do this for me, then I'm gonna neg you - or if you do this for me, I will give you a positive)

The seller is responsible for their account and all activity that takes place on it unless it is hacked etc. I doubt that someone hacked their account to list a second hand pram. Therefore whoever listed that pram must have had the sellers passwords etc and gone through all the verifications etc to start selling.

I'd ring eBay, can't remember all the official terms, no doubt someone will be along soon to tell you, but pretty sure that the eBay rep will get the general gist that you want to report a Non Performing Seller - ie. they won't go through with the transaction. I'm pretty sure they will send the seller to the trust and safety team, though be prepared, your mention of feedback might work against you - I'm not too sure.

Technically, the seller does have to honour the sale - it's a contract, but the only real way to enforce it is through legal representation, so unless it means an awful lot to you, and considering you have already moved on and are purchasing other ones, it appears it didn't matter too much iykwim, so legal action not relevant for you. Neither eBay or PayPal can force the seller to honour the sale.

Just for next time though, for your own protection, it really isn't safe to write this sale off until it is officially cancelled, as until the contract is terminated, you are still bound to honour it. So if the seller can't pay their rent on Monday and suddenly decides they need the $500 more than the pram, then they may pursue you to finalise the sale, and you would then need to finalize it or risk an unpaid item strike against yourself.

Just because the seller has said they don't want to sell today, that contract is still on foot. In this case you woiuld have a **bleep** good defence as you have it in wrioting that the seller did want to cancel the sale and "a reasonable person would believe this and look elsewhere" (that's legalspeak, I am not insinuating that you aren't legal - but courts will consider what a "reasonable person" would do in those circumstances if legislation directs them to do so) but at the end of the day, the seller can't just end a contract by saying "I dont wanna play anymore" so technically, the contract is still on foot.

[greylion2013]

No doubt the seller has done the wrong thing here, but I wouldn’t have pursued the sale any further after they never responded to your first or even second query – especially since their only feedback as a seller was 1 negative.

There are many sellers around who will do the right thing, best not to waste time on people like this.

You could pursue through eBay, but with now 2 negatives and no other feedback as a seller, this should be sufficient warning to any future buyers.

[*crikey*mate*]

as for were you abusive

meh - I say to someone feeling vulnerable, you were confrontational - not a bad thing, I'm not dissing you for that, but some people just lack the maturity to deal with confrontation especially when it conflicts with what they want to do.

In her mind, she made a decision, (remember she claearly doesn't understand/know her true responsibilities/obligations) and now you're questioning it. She doesn't care about you or anyone else, just herself and her own situation, nor does she care about her eBay reputation. In 2 years, she hasn't used eBay too much, so is hardly reliant on it.

- we women are known to be tempramental, unreasonable and sensitive at the best of times, and according to my husband that increases tenfold when we are pregnant LOLOLOL

clearly there are issues going on if she had to sell the pram whilst pregnant or for someone to list her pram against her wishes as she claims, so she probably does fall into the sensitive category at the moment.

and whilst you didn't intend your feedback comments to be abusive, they could quite possibly be constued as threatening - at least a veiled threat and eBay may well see them as feedback extortion. So in future, just remember "Don't mention feedback"

[cq_tech]

As the seller has claimed in writing that her account was hijacked and used without her authorisation, I think the OP should be informing trust & safety that her account has been compromised, in which case it will probably be suspended until such time as she can prove the account is back under her control.

Quite frankly, she deserves nothing less IMO.

[davewil1964]

I will only comment on your statement that you have worked hard at your 100% feedback.

If you are a buyer only, then you cannnot have LESS than 100% feedback, so not a lot of work is involved.

As far as the rest goes, it is a fait accompli, so why ask for opinions now?

[phorum_junkie*]

Hi this item is not for sale my account was accessed by an unauthorized person and listed without my consent.

Revenge is sweet to send the seller the following:

I am sorry your account has been hi-jacked, as it appears you are inexperienced and do not know how to handle the problem I have reported y0ur account as compromised to Trust & Safety and I am sure they will be in touch soon to sort things out anf get it back within your control.

Then report them, there is an option to report an account as hi-jacked..

As for the rest I can't understand why you are wasting so much time and energy, nothing you say or do is going to get you the pram so why bother? They have done the wrong thing so leave them a neg and move on. 

[springyzone]

P/junkie, he doesn't want the pram, he is getting another one. He's just telling us the story of what happened-venting.

This seller should not be selling on ebay-2 out of 2 non sales is ridiculous.

As for someone hacking her account-what a load of rubbish.

No one has hacked it. The only other one who would be likely to be able to do the listing would be someone like her husband or partner, perhaps they know the password etc. In which case, there's a fight going on about how much the pram cost in the first place.

But if this has happened to her twice now, then it is time she changed her password.

As to the bidder's emails. They weren't threatening but the wording was a bit pushy in one spot, where the buyer said something like 'I will pick it up tomorrow". I never say that to a seller, if I am picking up, I always ask when it would be convenient for them, then give a range of days when I am free and ask if any of them are suitable.