Sellers who say they accept no responsibility for loss in post

[purplesuz68]

I'm just curious as to what others do when they see the usual "I take no responsibility for Australia Post" blah blah.

Do you just avoid these sellers? Or do you buy the item anyway (especially if it's something that's hard to come by), of course paying with PayPal so you're covered if the item does get lost in the post? And do you point out to the seller that they are actually responsible, or do you just let it slide if there are no problems?

This is all assuming that their feedback is good with no complaints about items not received.

[lane-ends]

Not withstanding this, direct uploading and printing of addresses from Ebay to AP labels, along with AP verifying suburb/postcode matches in the process, has substantially reduced lost items due to poor addressing etc.

That statement on a listing is indicative of attitude if nothing else.

If a buyer is expecting protection from Paypal then they cant be upset when seller handballs it to Paypal, who then may knock it back as seller has proof of posting. No need to make those statements, it can only put buyers off. It would be better to make a statement about recompense will be at paypals discretion, so insurance is recommended for additional security.

[lane-ends]

As a buyer, I just ignore it. As long as I use Paypal I know I'm going to be compensated if it doesn't turn up - and I really don't care whether it's Paypal or the seller who pays.

Having said that, after 132 purchases I've never had anything go astray anyway.:-)

why are you so certain about this?

[jameshouseofstyle]

Hi purplesuz,

apparently, sellers are NOT responsible for the thrird party's actions - in this case PO, and they can put it in their listings.

They can also give customers choice to pay extra for Registered post to make sure they receive it.

Relying on Click & Send to get your money back if it doesn't arrive is a waste of time as sellers can prove posting to the nominated address - you'll loose unless seller believes your story and refunds you anyway.

I know someone who bought something rather expencive from a well know designer - from the Gallery, here on Ebay.

Their TOS also advises everyone they are not responsible for loss in transit and advise customers to choose Registered.

This person didn't do it - thinking PP will give her money back if the item gets lost - well, they didn't and she lost the case.

She rang Con.Aff. and they confirmed that it's up to her to pay correct postage if there was a choice given, as it's not fair on the seller either to loose their garment after they offered Registered and was refused - and they could prove postage.

She messaged the seller again to see if they can claim maybe from the PO and give her the money back - they said they are too busy, no time, this was a very fiddly and time consuming job with forms to fill - but they did offer $20 voucher of the next purchase.

She left a neg but that was removed in about half an hour!

She told us later - she was kinda glad it was removed, as the whole thing was entirelly her fault for ignoring the seller's advice to pay for Registered. For a measly $3.80 she wouldn't have suffered any losses.

[lane-ends]

Paypal though does protect you from any dodgy sellers who take your money and dont post item

Also C & S does offer sig with insurance for about a $1 extra rather than the $3 via normal registered, so you could ask seller sif they are happy to quote you that instead. BUT there i sno guarantee that they will lodge at PO hence that protection would be bypassed.if it gets lost.

[kopenhagen5]

Maybe some sellers state that as registered items can go missing, and then the responsibility lays with the terms between an ebay seller/member and AP.

Purple, there was a recent thread, postal worker delivered a pricey item and had signature. But receivers were away. See if I can find it for you.

[digital*ghost]

While I personally (as a seller), assume almost all risks as part of selling online (and in turn take steps to minimise them), I am not obliged to in some cases. To be honest I find it interesting that very few buyers consider that when they choose to purchase something online and have a third party deliver it to them, they're choosing a riskier shopping method than something like visiting a B&M store but they don't think they should have any responsibility for securing the delivery of that purchase in some way (eg by requesting registered instead of standard).

That's not to say that I don't think sellers have responsibilities - quite the opposite - but I think it's much wiser for all parties to be aware of all risks and responsaibilities.

PayPal is not a law unto itself - yes they have T&Cs, yes you agree to them, but they don't make up the consumer laws in Australia, they have to comply with them, and one of them is that the risk of loss for purchases delivered via an unregistered method is the buyer's, not the seller's. In practical terms though, the onus is still on the seller to provide documentation to PayPal unless they're prepared to take it higher after losing a case.

On the PayPal site, there's a couple different explanations and examples of what constitutes Proof of Shipping, which are actually contradictory. One says only documentation showing the buer's delivery address, another mentions a simple Post Office receipt showing nothing more than the buyer's postcode. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has (since January) been a seller involved in an INR case and provided a receipt with post code only, as PayPal will almost certainly not refund the buyer anymore is proof of postage has been supplied, and in fact now recommend that buyer's pay for registered within the T&C's of the Buyer Protection policy.

[purplesuz68]

I think you're right, james, it's probably worth paying the extra $3.80 for peace of mind, at least for more expensive purchases.

kopenhagen, I remember that thread, but I don't think it's been resolved yet, has it?

digital, it is a bit confusing, isn't it, when PayPal contradict themselves about proof of shipment? They also seem to assume that AP never makes a mistake by delivering to the incorrect address, or the situation in the thread mentioned by kopenhagen. At least, they don't deal with that situation in their information.

[phorum_junkie*]

pj, would you point out to the seller that their terms are unenforceable, or just leave them in their blissful ignorance?

As they say ignorance is bliss i would not want to burst their happy bubble so would not tell them anything 😉

[soho_solutions]

If a seller provides Paypal with a statutory declaration declared to be true in the presence of an authorised witness stating that they had posted to the buyers Paypal address would that be proof of postage by Paypal??

[lane-ends]

I reckon stat decs are meaningless bits of paper that many people wound not hesitate to lie on anyway, I would doubt they would deter a real scammer, only those that could be bothered filling one in and getting it witnessed.