Should seller be obligated to state if a vehicle cannot be registered?

[letscleanupmycupboards]

If a vehicle which appears to be a road registerable vehicle subsequently turns out to be unable to be registered (thus rendering it pointless to own), is this something a seller should be obligated to state in their listing? And would this be a fair reason for not going through with a purchase after winning a listing?

In this case the model concerned can normally be registered for road use however this one, upon a search of the vin number, has never been registered in any state, is presumably a private import and as such does not show up on a database of vehicles that can be registered. The reason this was discovered is that someone suggested a revs check to see if there were any issues like finance owing, a perfectly normal thing when buying a vehicle. At $30 not something you do for every vehicle you bid on, so the expectation is that you would do this after winning but before collection, and that in 99% of cases there would not be a problem. Except, as either this, the number doesn't exist.

Even though the listing says sold as is and does not specify any details, surely the fact that it presents, and is presented, in the same way any similar vehicle would be presented should be grounds to say it's not an accurate description?

If a vehicle is a write off and can't be registered, a seller is obligated by law to disclose this.

Any thoughts?

[lyndal1838]

If you go to pick up the vehicle I presume you will be paying cash/bank cheque after inspecting it to see that all is as it should be.

If you are not happy for any reason you are free to walk away without paying.

The fact that the number does not exist should be enough reason to walk away.

[letscleanupmycupboards]

It is going to be around a 170km round trip to collect. Since I have undertaken a search and discovered the number is not valid I don't plan on spending half a day travelling to not buy.

The issue is whether I will cop a non paying bidder strike if I opt not to buy? Yes you are free to look and decide not to buy but the seller can still strike you can't they. And could you cite the item is not as described when there wasn't a mention of anything to do with rego, even though the point of a vehicle is yo use it, so the assumption is that it can be used?

Can it be not as described because the fact that it's not registerable was omitted, or may not have been known by the seller?

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

could it be that they quoted the number incorrectly and that is why it does not appear on any database?  I have seen the length of these VIN numbers and would imagine that it could be quite easy to misquote the number.

[lyndal1838]

Technically you can get a strike for non payment.  It would then be up to ebay as to whether they will remove it.   Common sense says they should, but ebay is not exactly big on common sense.

But one strike will not do you much harm...it is only if you get another one that seller's requirements will kick in.

[the_pooze]

If the Seller is aware that the vehicle can not be registered they certainly have at least a moral obligation to disclose that information and if the Buyer advises them they plan to have it registered (or ask if it can be) that moral obligation then becomes a legal one.

If the Seller is unaware as they have never had, nor tried to have, it registered their only obligation is, again, to advise that they do not know if it is registerable if asked.

A Seller cannot assume a Buyers intentions for an item thus, there is a degree of onus on the Buyer to seek information pertaining to the item. 

[modestbods]

It's unfortunate if the seller didn't stipulate either way, they should have.

At the end of the day as regards law, you don't have to purchase it in such circumstances (in NSW at least). Legally ebay sales are not considered auctions, regardless of if they take on an auction type format, so sold 'as is' does not in fact apply... you have every legal right to walk away from it if it fails to meet your expectations.. & not being 'roadworthy' either through disrepair or being unregisterable is a major expectation FAIL if no mention was made of it.

 Others here are better qualified to suggest what obligations eBay may adjudge you do or or don't have... I'm not sure, but I had thought eBay rules required sellers of cars to provide registration status &/ details.

BUT, before you throw the baby out with the bath water...

Since you made the effort to conduct a revs check, you should also make a call to a motor registry. The fact that the number didn't appear via Revs, is not necessarily a bad thing, at least it means it's not encumbered.

If it is an import there is every likelihood that it can be registered here without too much fuss. I'm not sure of the exact process in other states, but in NSW it would require blue slipping, ie. a roadworthy check by authorized mechanic & weighing via weighbridge (double check with motor registry, but you should be able to have this done via your local dumps weighbridge). As an import without a valid vin number you will also have to have a valid vin stamped on it by an authorized mechanic/company, not hard to find or have done but can cost a hundred or more.... (but please check all this with a motor registry, laws/things change & its been 4 yrs since I last dealt in this sort of thing).

 If the car is at a good price, then it could well be worth a call/visit to a motor registry.

Good luck

[letscleanupmycupboards]

Hi Modestbods,

I did in fact check with our transport compliance department.

They entered the number into a national database which showed that it was not a valid number. He told me this either means it was a private import without approval or was imported for non road use (ie for use on a property, golf course, other private property) but either way it cannot ever be put on the road. As it is a road going vehicle with all the lights and indicators etc, the natural expectation is that it can be used. As a buyer I'm not to know if its "off the grid" so to speak.

Its been relisted by the seller, no response to my very polite request to cancel the transaction and interestingly, no mention of the fact it can't be registered. Hoping to catch someone else out. Shame theres not a lot that can be done to prevent that.

[boggo58]

No, its up to the buyer to ask questions, NEVER leave it at hearsay, always ask questions. If you have bought it without out asking a zillion questions then youve got yourself a car. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

[i-love-my-sheep]

EXACTLY!! I sold a food van a few years ago. My ad was very in depth. The ad stated that the registration ran out on a particular date (it was unregistered at time of sale). Someone hit the BIN button without asking a single question. Post sale all she wanted to know was where to pick it up from.

She spent over 2 hours here going over it with a fine tooth comb, my husband pointing out absolutely everything possible, including the tiny water leak in one of the pipes (that wasn't obvious to the eye). He gave her plenty of chances to back out, but she wasn't leaving here without it.

2 days later, I get a nasty email demanding her money back as it wasn't registered and it was going to cost X amount of $$ to get it registered and she opened a not as described case against me. Long story short, it went through the courts, we won and she was left with her purchase. It came out in court that she hadn't read one line of the ad, nor asked any questions, she had only looked at the photos.

The magistrate said it was one of the most comprehensive ads he had ever seen on eBay and if she'd read the ad and asked the relevant questions, we wouldn't have been there wasting his time.

Moral of the story, ALWAYS ask questions, LOTS of questions!