is this a gold guinea or a token?

i am having some issues with this coin. i have researched this and i believe it is a 1798 guinea. all tokens have 'in memory of the good old days on the reverse, yet this one has M.B.F.ETH.REX.F.D.B.ET.L.D.S.R.I.AT.ET.E.1798.

and GEORGIUS III DEI GRATIA on the obverse.

please any help would be very appreciated

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

I'm afraid that, despite having the correct reverse legend for the guinea, yours is nevertheless a card-counter replica.

 

Not all "false guinea" tokens say "In memory of the good old days". Some carry nonsense, garbled letters. Some carry the encoded name of the token-maker, such as "C.H.A.R.L.E.S.P.E.V.E.R.E.L.L.M.A.K.E.R.B.I.R." on the tokens made by one Charles Peverell of Birmingham. And others, such as yours, copy the design of the guinea more or less faithfully.

 

Three things tell me that yours is not a genuine gold guinea.

 

First, it's very thin; I have a guinea and it's quite thick, too thick to punch a clean hole through easily. It is thick enough to bear a milled edge; I'm not seeing any evidence of milling around the edge of your piece.

 

Second, it's stained, around the MBF, the hole, the I of SRI and elsewhere. I'd want to hear a very good reason why 22k gold would stain like that, because under normal circumstances here on Earth, it won't. One or two stains might be acceptable - my guinea has a stain at the top, where a loop was once soldered on; the stain is actually from the solder, not the gold - but I'm afraid yours has far too many.

 

Third, there's bits missing from the design, where the thin brass used to make your token has not been fully struck into by the dies. There's one lion that's completely missing from the shield, and a couple more critters that have almost completely faded away. If this had been caused by wear, then other details - such as the crown - ought to be equally well worn.

 

While we're mentioning design anomalies, I should also point out that on genuine guineas, the lettering is always right up next to the rim of the coin. This was deliberately done as a security feature, to prevent clipping - if anyone tried to trim away some of the gold, it would be immediately obvious because half of the lettering would be gone. Compare your coin with a genuine guinea and you'll see what I mean.

 

But if you wish to confirm things for yourself, weigh it. A genuine guinea ought to weigh 8.35 grams; a thin brass replica would weigh much less than that.

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

I'm afraid that, despite having the correct reverse legend for the guinea, yours is nevertheless a card-counter replica.

 

Not all "false guinea" tokens say "In memory of the good old days". Some carry nonsense, garbled letters. Some carry the encoded name of the token-maker, such as "C.H.A.R.L.E.S.P.E.V.E.R.E.L.L.M.A.K.E.R.B.I.R." on the tokens made by one Charles Peverell of Birmingham. And others, such as yours, copy the design of the guinea more or less faithfully.

 

Three things tell me that yours is not a genuine gold guinea.

 

First, it's very thin; I have a guinea and it's quite thick, too thick to punch a clean hole through easily. It is thick enough to bear a milled edge; I'm not seeing any evidence of milling around the edge of your piece.

 

Second, it's stained, around the MBF, the hole, the I of SRI and elsewhere. I'd want to hear a very good reason why 22k gold would stain like that, because under normal circumstances here on Earth, it won't. One or two stains might be acceptable - my guinea has a stain at the top, where a loop was once soldered on; the stain is actually from the solder, not the gold - but I'm afraid yours has far too many.

 

Third, there's bits missing from the design, where the thin brass used to make your token has not been fully struck into by the dies. There's one lion that's completely missing from the shield, and a couple more critters that have almost completely faded away. If this had been caused by wear, then other details - such as the crown - ought to be equally well worn.

 

While we're mentioning design anomalies, I should also point out that on genuine guineas, the lettering is always right up next to the rim of the coin. This was deliberately done as a security feature, to prevent clipping - if anyone tried to trim away some of the gold, it would be immediately obvious because half of the lettering would be gone. Compare your coin with a genuine guinea and you'll see what I mean.

 

But if you wish to confirm things for yourself, weigh it. A genuine guinea ought to weigh 8.35 grams; a thin brass replica would weigh much less than that.

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

Some very sound and knowledgable advise there.

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

thankyou so much for a comprehensive and well detailled answer and thankyou for taking the time. it is very much appreciated.

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

Can you please message me. I have one in hand and one love to know if it’s real.

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

I'd be surprised if they see your comment, given they posted in 2013

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is this a gold guinea or a token?

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.

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