27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight

[viewmont1071]

http://www.thereporter.com.au/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukrai/2322591/

DUTCH authorities have confirmed that 27 Australians were among the 295 on board the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 which crashed overnight.

Anyone with concerns about friends or family, contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on 1300 555 135

DFAT: 'Grave concerns' for Australians on board MH17

[tall_bearded01]

I think your sympathies are somewhat misplaced, in that the bad press is all of their (the separatists) own making.

All the evidence points towards the fact the aircraft was shot down.  That the weapon system used was along range surface to air missile launched by the separatists, with probably a Russian “advisor” or two in situ.  These facts were pretty much established on day one.

Now from that point onwards what has happened has all the hallmarks of people who have been seen for what they are, desperately trying to find some way out.  The solution.  Find some way to get the Russians to conduct the investigation.

But the world wasn’t going to allow that. and it is only after the Russians are convinced that this is the case, that the separatists finally decide to allow independent inspectors onto the site, but only after it has been “cleansed” as much as possible,  again with probably a Russian or two (adviser) in situ to show them what to look for.

As for counselling or the lack thereof, how is that possibly our fault?  The incident occurred in the Ukraine in a place controlled by the separatists and under Russian influence, neither of whom put any store in trauma counselling.  So if it is to occur, it’s the international community who would have to provide the service.

But hang on, if it took almost a week to get them (the separatists) to agree to let the international investigators onto the crash site, how long do you think it going to be before you‘re able to get them to agree to allow independent trauma councillors in, so that those who witnessed the crime, can tell someone outside of the control of those who committed the crime, what they saw…I’ll let you join the dots from here.

[***super_nova***]

It is not quite what I meant TB; the situation over there is very complicated, as in most such conflicts there are no "goodies & baddies".  I agree, the most likely scenario is that the plane was shot down by the separatists, and I am sure that the Ukrainian government would like the world to believe it was deliberate - that would be  the end of the rebels.   Even if it was an accident, it is a serious setback for the separatists.  And yes, I do have some sympathy for the ethnic Russians, born in the USSR (Russian speaking country), and all of the sudden finding themselves living in Ukraine.  They have a hard time there, just as the Ukrainians were mostly never happy to be controlled by Moscow.  I also have heaps of sympathy for the ethnic Ukrainians living in this region,  who have been stuck in the war zone, and who face the possibility of being controlled by Moscow again.  Neither of them are "terrorists" or "scum of the earth", does not matter what TA or JB says.

The way it looks like, it is quite possible that in the long run the Ukrainians will gain by this.  So, if somebody is looking for a motive for shooting down the plane deliberately, they would be the prime suspects.  But then again it could be a double bluff......  The thing is that is very unlikely; too many variables, and such a plan would more than likely backfire. 

Of-course, the rebels are paranoid about letting anybody in their hard fought for territory; as I said, they are fighting for their lives. 

One of the things that irritated me was the fact that does not matter what was done or not done, there was nothing but criticism  in our media and by our government.  The first time I heard somebody to say something not negative was a Dutch female officer, who said that the Ukrainian people done pretty good job, as good as they posibly could under the circumtances, in collecting the body parts and sending them over. 

The sad things is that such negative reports only add to the agony of the families.

[icyfroth]

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

It is not quite what I meant TB; the situation over there is very complicated, as in most such conflicts there are no "goodies & baddies".  I agree, the most likely scenario is that the plane was shot down by the separatists, and I am sure that the Ukrainian government would like the world to believe it was deliberate - that would be  the end of the rebels.   Even if it was an accident, it is a serious setback for the separatists.  And yes, I do have some sympathy for the ethnic Russians, born in the USSR (Russian speaking country), and all of the sudden finding themselves living in Ukraine.  They have a hard time there, just as the Ukrainians were mostly never happy to be controlled by Moscow.  I also have heaps of sympathy for the ethnic Ukrainians living in this region,  who have been stuck in the war zone, and who face the possibility of being controlled by Moscow again.  Neither of them are "terrorists" or "scum of the earth", does not matter what TA or JB says.

The way it looks like, it is quite possible that in the long run the Ukrainians will gain by this.  So, if somebody is looking for a motive for shooting down the plane deliberately, they would be the prime suspects.  But then again it could be a double bluff......  The thing is that is very unlikely; too many variables, and such a plan would more than likely backfire. 

Of-course, the rebels are paranoid about letting anybody in their hard fought for territory; as I said, they are fighting for their lives. 

One of the things that irritated me was the fact that does not matter what was done or not done, there was nothing but criticism  in our media and by our government.  The first time I heard somebody to say something not negative was a Dutch female officer, who said that the Ukrainian people done pretty good job, as good as they posibly could under the circumtances, in collecting the body parts and sending them over. 

The sad things is that such negative reports only add to the agony of the families.

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Had to give this post a kudo.

[lionrose.7]

I am not sure that the families of the 300 dead would give any kudos to that post at all

[cherry*135]

I agree rosie. That post does not speak for the families of the 298 passengers who died on MH17, a plane crash that should not have happened, mistake or not.

One family has reported their deceased family members credit card has been removed from the site and attempts have been made to use it in the Ukraine. The family have identified themselves and given the name of the passenger whose card it was.

[icyfroth]

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@lionrose.7 wrote:

I am not sure that the families of the 300 dead would give any kudos to that post at all

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They've probably got more important things to worry about than posts on here or any other social media, I'd say.

[icyfroth]

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@am*3 wrote:
I agree rosie. That post does not speak for the families of the 298 passengers who died on MH17, a plane crash that should not have happened, mistake or not.

One family has reported their deceased family members credit card has been removed from the site and attempts have been made to use it in the Ukraine. The family have identified themselves and given the name of the passenger whose card it was.

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I'm sure that will be fully investigated. We have 50 members of the Aus Federal Police standing by in the UK to help deal with such matters.

[cherry*135]

The point is it shouldn't have been allowed to happen in the first place.

Australian police would have no authority in the Ukraine to arrest and charge Ukraine people for theft/looting.

As far as looting goes, much too late to secure the site to prevent that by the time they get there. The looting has already happened.

[icyfroth]

Update:

Ukraine in political limbo as PM resigns, complicating M17 probe

"Prime Minister **bleep**niy Yatsenyuk said he was stepping down over the “dissolution of the parliamentary coalition and the blocking of government initiatives” after several parties walked out on the ruling group.

The collapse of the ruling coalition paves the way for early elections to be called by President Petro Poroshenko within 30 days."

Entire Article Here

Geez that's weird. Saw him on 60 mins Sunday night he was vehement to world step in to punish the Russians over the M17 downing.

[lionrose.7]

I never used to like Tony but I am starting to have more respect for him, as I am sure the aussies whose families who were murdered do, yes murdered babies, children, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, grand parents all murdered.

Laying for days on a field with armed rebels, stopping inspectors from trying to help to get it sorted so their bodies could go back to the families.

These people will be buried with out the family ever been able to see them again,

Some will never be found because there is nothing left to be found.

Put your self in those shoes and tell me if the politics about who you like and who you dont like running a Country matters.