A Royal Commission into Union corruption? Why?

[i-need-a-martini]

Is this really necessary given that it is a criminal matter?

Like how much does a Royal Commission cost? $400million? $600million?

And why is it that the Liberal Party are forever making the excuse that the 'public' have concerns and this is the reason they have to do something? ("Senator Brandis confirmed...it would be "irresponsible for the government not to respond in an appropriate way" to public concerns."). What concerns? I think the public is more concerned about the secrecy regarding the governments handling of the asylum seekers yet they don't think THOSE public concerns are important.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/royal-commission-into-union-corruption-confirm...

[spotweldersfriend]

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@crikey*mate wrote:

My father estimated that by sticking exactly to the award, that butcher was down about $200 a week - now that was a LOT of money back then (mid 80's).

But by the time he lost all his overtime, weekends, public holidays, and then had to start supplying his own breakfast, lunch, drinks etc and weekly meat, etc oh, and uniforms and whatever else everyone else got, dad reckoned it would have been that much.

and all because the unions went nuts over 15 minutes pay, when my father wasn't even in the country.

They didn't even come to him first and say "oi! you owe this bloke 15 minutes pay, just went in like a bull at a gate.

They didn't take into consideration all the other benefits the bloke was getting, and say "whoops, you made a mistake, fix it up, will ya and don't do it again" nope - full boar investigation and cost their "member" $200 a week.

and the funny thing was, the bloke never explained why he was at work 15 minutes late that day, when most others had clocked out before 5pm. Only the manager and wash up boys were left - and this bloke.

Gotta love a union, eh?

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Other side of the coin.Years ago I worked in the hospitaly industry.Thieving capitaist was ripping me off.I knew I was being short changed but to report it would have meant dismissal.I continued working there and after I left reported the shortfall to the union.A couple if weeks later I received a cheque in excess of $7000. Unions-gotta love 'em.

[punch*drunk]

Other side of the coin.Years ago I worked in the hospitaly industry.Thieving capitaist was ripping me off.I knew I was being short changed but to report it would have meant dismissal.I continued working there and after I left reported the shortfall to the union.A couple if weeks later I received a cheque in excess of $7000. Unions-gotta love 'em.

Of course people will have good stories, and so they should, that is what a union is for. But you cant turn a blind eye to the bad just because they also do good.

[freakiness]

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@punch*drunk wrote:

Other side of the coin.Years ago I worked in the hospitaly industry.Thieving capitaist was ripping me off.I knew I was being short changed but to report it would have meant dismissal.I continued working there and after I left reported the shortfall to the union.A couple if weeks later I received a cheque in excess of $7000. Unions-gotta love 'em.

Of course people will have good stories, and so they should, that is what a union is for. But you cant turn a blind eye to the bad just because they also do good.

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A lot has changed since the 80s and 90s.  

If all employers had been fair and reasonable in the past there would have been no need for unions. 

Like everything, we hear more about the negative than the positive when it comes to unions.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@spotweldersfriend wrote:

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@crikey*mate wrote:

My father estimated that by sticking exactly to the award, that butcher was down about $200 a week - now that was a LOT of money back then (mid 80's).

But by the time he lost all his overtime, weekends, public holidays, and then had to start supplying his own breakfast, lunch, drinks etc and weekly meat, etc oh, and uniforms and whatever else everyone else got, dad reckoned it would have been that much.

and all because the unions went nuts over 15 minutes pay, when my father wasn't even in the country.

They didn't even come to him first and say "oi! you owe this bloke 15 minutes pay, just went in like a bull at a gate.

They didn't take into consideration all the other benefits the bloke was getting, and say "whoops, you made a mistake, fix it up, will ya and don't do it again" nope - full boar investigation and cost their "member" $200 a week.

and the funny thing was, the bloke never explained why he was at work 15 minutes late that day, when most others had clocked out before 5pm. Only the manager and wash up boys were left - and this bloke.

Gotta love a union, eh?

---

Other side of the coin.Years ago I worked in the hospitaly industry.Thieving capitaist was ripping me off.I knew I was being short changed but to report it would have meant dismissal.I continued working there and after I left reported the shortfall to the union.A couple if weeks later I received a cheque in excess of $7000. Unions-gotta love 'em.

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yes, that was always in the backs of our minds - if we didn't want the jobs, there were plenty more that did, so when you got good jobs with other benefits, you held onto them and did what was required.

Never bothered me to make a claim, once I started working overseas, whilst the conditions were worse, the job and lifestyle was awesome and the pay incredible,

But glad they helped you out...

Heard another Union story a few years ago

This bloke had a job where union membership was compulsory, only worked there about a year before he got another job.

10 years later (or whatever), just before the l;ast elections, the union sent him a bill for over $10,ooo in unpaid union membership fees.

and the form was worded in such a way, that most would have signed it meaning they were committed to pay the back fees when they thought they were signing a release form. That was in Victoria - can't remember the Union.

It was just lucky that my friend asked me about it before he sent the form back.

[punch*drunk]

A lot has changed since the 80s and 90s.

Yes, the use of bikies is a fairly recent development I think.

Clearly the unions have done a lot of good over the years but they have pretty much worn out their usefulness in my opinion.

[spotweldersfriend]

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@punch*drunk wrote:

Other side of the coin.Years ago I worked in the hospitaly industry.Thieving capitaist was ripping me off.I knew I was being short changed but to report it would have meant dismissal.I continued working there and after I left reported the shortfall to the union.A couple if weeks later I received a cheque in excess of $7000. Unions-gotta love 'em.

Of course people will have good stories, and so they should, that is what a union is for. But you cant turn a blind eye to the bad just because they also do good.

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Exactly,so lets investigste something even more important i.e the Howard governments decision to take part in the illegal invasion of Iraq after he'd been informed that the existence of the so called WMD's was a pack of lies.Scott Ritter the US UNSCOM guy reported it for what is was and our own Andrew Wilkie also said it was a pack of lies.Lets get to the bottom of this affair, not some witch hunt over union bribes.Bribes happen outside union affairs,even in the corridors of power. Its usually called lobbying there.

[punch*drunk]

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@spotweldersfriend wrote:

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@punch*drunk wrote:

Other side of the coin.Years ago I worked in the hospitaly industry.Thieving capitaist was ripping me off.I knew I was being short changed but to report it would have meant dismissal.I continued working there and after I left reported the shortfall to the union.A couple if weeks later I received a cheque in excess of $7000. Unions-gotta love 'em.

Of course people will have good stories, and so they should, that is what a union is for. But you cant turn a blind eye to the bad just because they also do good.

---

Exactly,so lets investigste something even more important i.e the Howard governments decision to take part in the illegal invasion of Iraq after he'd been informed that the existence of the so called WMD's was a pack of lies.Scott Ritter the US UNSCOM guy reported it for what is was and our own Andrew Wilkie also said it was a pack of lies.Lets get to the bottom of this affair, not some witch hunt over union bribes.Bribes happen outside union affairs,even in the corridors of power. Its usually called lobbying there.

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I guess we all have different ideas of what we consider worthy of investigating or more important. Union officials and bikies harrassing and taking the hard earned money from small business people is criminal and should be stopped in my opinion. I dont think the Iraq war is even relevant to the discussion.

[freakiness]

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@punch*drunk wrote:

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I guess we all have different ideas of what we consider worthy of investigating or more important. Union officials and bikies harrassing and taking the hard earned money from small business people is criminal and should be stopped in my opinion. I dont think the Iraq war is even relevant to the discussion.

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Yes, any corruption should be dealt with, including the corruption at the top.  The royal commission should examine the LNP and the companies involved as well as the unions.  Where there is corruption it is not limited to members of one side.  

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3942200.htm

ELEANOR HALL: A day after the Prime Minister launched the royal commission into union corruption, the union movement is hitting back.

The construction union is calling for the inquiry take evidence about $430,000 worth of payments to the Liberal National Party in Queensland by a now bankrupt building firm that owed millions to workers.

At the same time there is uncertainty in the union movement over whether it will be forced to pay for legal representation at the royal commission, as Peter Lloyd reports.

PETER LLOYD: At the announcement of the royal commission this was the pledge of the Employment Minister, Senator Eric Abetz.

ERIC ABETZ: This royal commission will shine the spotlight, I suggest, not only on registered organisations in relation to employee associations, but also onto employers. This is a sword that will cut both ways.

PETER LLOYD: It took less than a day for the union movement to take the sword to a boss.

In the Sunshine state, there's an emerging story about Walton Construction. It's a building firm whose premises are owned by a property trust linked to the Liberal National Party. A funny thing seems to have happened to the way that company paid rent - it cascaded up.

Bill Hoffman has been writing about it for the Sunshine Coast Daily.

BILL HOFFMAN: Walton Construction in Queensland rented premises at 190 Montpelier Road, Bowen Hills in Brisbane, that we've discovered was owned and is owned by a company called Ultum Proprietary Ltd, which is a company connected to the LNP in Queensland.

PETER LLOYD: The LNP, it should be said, doesn't deny that it is the landlord, does it?

BILL HOFFMAN: It absolutely does not.

PETER LLOYD: Tell me about the payments and how they rose over the years.

BILL HOFFMAN: In 2009-2010 it was $105,994. In 2010-2011 the amount rose to $353,315. In 2011-2012 the amount was $516,966 and in 2012-2013 it was $431,082.

PETER LLOYD: What explanation have you been given for the huge increases in rental over those years?

BILL HOFFMAN: There's been no explanation of that.

PETER LLOYD: The construction union is one of the big five named in the terms of reference for the royal commission.

The union's Dave Noonan says the Walton story illustrates what he says is the need for the royal commission to examine bosses and builders too. He's got two sets of allegations he wants looked into:

DAVE NOONAN: The Federal Government's taken the opportunity to commence a witch hunt into trade unions. Companies that engage in illegal behaviour or bribery or corruption in the building and construction industry in particular, aren't going to be looked at.

PETER LLOYD: Should they?

DAVE NOONAN: Well absolutely. There are two companies - Steve Nolan Constructions in Sydney and a national builder by the name of Walton Constructions have made very substantial donations to LNP-aligned funds: $200,000 in the case of Steve Nolan Constructions, and very substantial amounts, $430,000, in relation to Walton Constructions.

Both of these companies have contributed to what appear to be LNP, Liberal National Party, slush funds at the same time as they have collapsed, owing subcontractors and workers tens of millions of dollars.

PETER LLOYD: But there's nothing illegal about $600,000 in donations to the Liberal Party is there?

DAVE NOONAN: Well I think it's very questionable that this sort of thing is happening at a time when companies can't pay their subcontractors, they're giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to Liberal Party slush funds.

PETER LLOYD: Well is it a slush fund when the union movement that you're part of puts money into the Labor Party?

DAVE NOONAN: Well apparently under Mr Abbot's definition it is, and those terms have certainly been thrown around by the Liberal party by Mr Abbot and Mr Abetz.

PETER LLOYD: In a statement to The World Today, the Queensland Liberal Nation Party dismissed the concerns about Walton Constructions as 'baseless' and 'ill-informed'. 

As that row unfolds the Government in Canberra has gone silent on questions about who pays for the attendance of unions at the royal commission. In the case of the construction union, the last commission is estimated to have cost it around $1 million, and none of that was recovered.

Dave Noonan from the construction union again.

DAVE NOONAN: Look, I think there's no doubt that the royal commission has a number of purposes. First of all it's there to tie up and make it harder for unions to do their job of representing workers, and it's going to... it will mean a certain amount of resources devoted to defending the union's position. 

That's a fact, and that's what happened in the last royal commission. After all, we've seen three royal commissions in the last 30 years into the building industry, so it's not a new thing.

ELEANOR HALL: That's Dave Noonan from the construction union, ending Peter Lloyd's report.

[monman12]

FN: "Yes, any corruption should be dealt with, including the corruption at the top.  The royal commission should examine the LNP and the companies involved as well as the unions."
You must have missed these recent statements:

"Where there is corruption it is not limited to members of one side"

."the commission is not prevented from looking into “credible allegations” surrounding other entities.

TONY Abbott has announced broad-ranging terms of reference for his Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption, warning both employers and labour officials could have the spotlight shone on decades of suspicious dealings

The commission can also examine any other person, association or organisation against whom credible allegations of misconduct are made.

Employment minister Eric Abetz warned the commission was “a sword that will cut both ways” and employers would also draw the commissioner's scrutiny.

I would  suggest that Noonan is somewhat ( actually a lot)  biased,  and  is also unable to research, or just disregards, (no really?) unpalatable facts.

A recent poll has found 67 per cent supported the inquiry, which Labor has dismissed as a witch-hunt against the labour movement.
Just 23 per cent opposed the move. Support was strongest among Coalition voters, with 81 per cent in favour, while 55 per cent of Labor voters were in support and 36 per cent opposed.

Oh dear!

    
"It's not actually legal for sheep or goats to vote"

[i-need-a-martini]

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@punch*drunk wrote:

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I guess we all have different ideas of what we consider worthy of investigating or more important. Union officials and bikies harrassing and taking the hard earned money from small business people is criminal and should be stopped in my opinion. I dont think the Iraq war is even relevant to the discussion.

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How does corruption affect small business?

Union corruption (the odd times it happens) happens at the big end of town and only in a couple of industries. Why do you think Abbott is targeting the construction industry (again). We aren't talking about a little union debate because a butcher underpaid his staff. That's not corruption.

The kind of corruption that Abbott is chasing (after he didn't find anything the last Royla Commission, he is giving it another go now) is corruption that has little to do with unions but more to do with shonky buiness practices and blackmail under the guise of union to make it appear legit.