on 04-12-2013 12:18 PM
A new report comparing Australian high school students with 65 other countries shows the nation is slipping further behind in maths and reading skills.
The 2012 Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) measures the mathematics, reading and science skills of half a million 15-year-olds from around the world.
It found Australian teens placed equal 17th in maths, equal 10th in reading and equal 8th in science.
Asian countries like China, Singapore, Korea and Japan are pulling ahead of Australian students in maths and reading.
The results show Australian students are slipping in maths performance by about a half a year of schooling compared to 10 years ago.
ACER's director of educational monitoring and research, Dr Sue Thomson, says gender, Indigenous status and socio-economic status still divide student outcomes.
"Australia has slipped backwards to the type of gender disparity that was seen decades ago, and the performance scores of girls coupled with a number of particularly negative motivational attitudes puts Australia further away from providing all students with the same educational opportunities," Dr Thomson said.
Results back Government's plan to focus on teachers, says Pyne
Education Minister Christopher Pyne says Labor's education policies have been in place for most of the decade and they have now been shown as a spectacular failure.
"Today's report card shows that for all the billions spent on laptops and school halls, there is still no evidence of a lift in outcomes for students."
"Despite spending 44 per cent more on education funding over the past decade, results are still in decline.
"This clearly shows that more funding does not equate to better outcomes."
The Federal Government will go ahead with Labor's Gonski plan from next year but will only commit to four years of funding.
Mr Shorten says it needs to get on board for the full six years.
"It's time to implement Gonski in full. It's time to stop the political games and bandaid solutions and get on board giving the next generation of Australians the best start in life."
However:
Kevin Donnelly from the Education Standards Institute says he is not surprised by the results.
"We have in fact been in trouble, if you like, for many, many years.
"We have trouble with disruptive classrooms...[and] we don't allow our teachers to mentor one another and to help one another. In places like Singapore, they actually respect teachers, children respect teachers, they are well-resourced.
"They have a lot more time to learn from one another and to improve classroom practice."
He says the debate is not only about funding.
"Money is important, but it gets back to a rigorous curriculum, effective teaching practice, good teacher training - so there are a few things we can look at there."
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Good Old Labor, think if they throw enough (of the taxpayers) money at a problem, it will go away.
...
on 04-12-2013 04:39 PM
Christopher Pyne: Minister for Education
...Christopher Pyne is right to feel disappointed. Yes, he was the second-youngest MP ever, and yes, he is undoubtedly the prissiest, most precious and precocious petal among a bunch of preening peacocks, and yet there's one thing that has continually eluded Pyne. Respect. It's difficult to see how any of his antics over the past week will change that.
.....He's apparently been too busy making points-of-order to get across the detail of the education portfolio he's been shadowing since 2008. Or maybe Pyne's been around the green carpets and wood panelling of Parliament for a bit too long. Perhaps he needs to get out more.
In just 100 days he's managed to unify the sector against him. Even his own state Liberal colleagues have wandered in from the outfield to publicly and humiliatingly sledge him.
In a move of stunning incompetence, Pyne trashed a carefully wrought student-funding model without any idea of what's going to replace it. It was a slapstick performance so incompetently carried out it would have drawn laughs in a music hall.
Pyne has successfully managed to portray himself as the most incompetent joker in the pack. And don't mistake the degree of difficulty here. It takes a good deal of talent to make a state education minister appear statesmanlike.
Nevertheless, at their combined press conference the other day, Pyne managed all this and more. He stood off to one side while every minister in the country took turns to ruthlessly demolish his ''reform'', which simply turns the clocks back to a world of privilege and favouritism.
Then he boorishly charged in to assert - despite all the evidence to the contrary - that he's right and they're wrong. And why? What better plan is he proposing to introduce? Well, he can't tell us that now, we'll just have to wait and see. Trust me, says Pyne, claiming he can still trump the experts and come up with something better. You can almost picture him standing in front of a dartboard with some arrows, confident that providence will guide him to the correct answer. Now it turns out we had the right answer all along and we're presented with all the startling idiocy of yet another volte-face.
Pyne appears incapable of perceiving how ridiculous his assertions of superior process actually are. When even the thinnest twig hits a calm pool, it sets off ripples. That's Pyne. The perception that he's shallow, superficial and trivial has now become political reality. Everything that's occurred since he became minister simply reinforces this perception. It actually doesn't matter if he's very, very clever; many people already suspect he's not.
..
What's more surprising - and worrying from the perspective of Tony Abbott - is that two polls last week put beyond doubt the reality that the government's going backwards. It's the reverse of what happened after the election of John Howard and Kevin Rudd. The feel-good factor's evaporating. Any advice Abbott's receiving is obviously hopeless. The team and tactics that got him to the Lodge won't be able to keep him there.
Some 30 years ago, in NSW, the Liberal's Nick Greiner swept out a wildly unpopular Labor government. His education minister, Terry Metherell, rammed wildly unpopular reforms through Parliament, despite a huge backlash from parents. The Liberals lost their majority at the next election. Pyne seems determined to take a similar shortcut to electoral oblivion.
04-12-2013 04:50 PM - edited 04-12-2013 04:51 PM
Yes I read that article as well, Am, previous to your posting it, but it's simply more Pyne bashing, deservedly or not, and not relevant to the question of why aussie kids are slipping behind so badly in the education stakes. And that's been going on longer than Mr Pyne's been in office.
04-12-2013 04:56 PM - edited 04-12-2013 04:59 PM
The link in the OP is Labor bashing..the journalists spin on PISA 2012.
https://www.acer.edu.au/documents/PISA-2012-Report.pdf
As lakeland mentioned the countries that did better than Aust are Asian countries. Due to very large populations students have a lot of pressure on them to excel.. extra private tutoring after school, mothers giving them lessons before they go to school. It isn't really those countries Govt education system that is the reason they are excelling, it is the time and money their parents are putting into their child.
I think Pyne (current Minister of Education) is relevant to this discussion because they way he is going, Aust school children (tested at 15yo in PISA) really will be slipping behind other countries.
04-12-2013 05:03 PM - edited 04-12-2013 05:06 PM
Part of the reason pupils do so well in Shanghai, according to the OECD's deputy director of education, Andreas Schleicher, is that they have the drive and confidence to fulfill their potential.'
"In China and Shanghai, you have nine out of ten students telling you, 'It depends on me. If I invest the effort, my teachers are going to help me to be successful'," Schleicher told CNN's On China program, which will air later this month.
Similarly, in Japan -- which ranked 7th overall -- more than 80% of students disagreed or strongly disagreed that they put off difficult problems, and 68% disagreed or strongly disagreed that they give up easily when confronted with a problem.
Hard work
"Practice and hard work go a long way towards developing each student's potential, but students can only achieve at the highest levels when they believe that they are in control of their success and that they are capable of achieving at high levels," the PISA report said.
....Jiang also told CNN that Shanghai's success is a product of a culture that prioritizes academic achievements over other pursuits "A lot of it is that the students are engaged in learning. The parents, the students, the community are engaged in making sure their child succeeds," he said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/03/world/asia/pisa-education-study/
on 04-12-2013 05:18 PM
@icyfroth wrote:Yes I read that article as well, Am, previous to your posting it, but it's simply more Pyne bashing, deservedly or not, and not relevant to the question of why aussie kids are slipping behind so badly in the education stakes. And that's been going on longer than Mr Pyne's been in office.
am is spot on with what she is saying, it comes down to different cultural values.
plus
Australia has a different education system to ones adopted by Asians and in fact most other countries who we are behind.
They have a vertical curriculum whereas we have a horizontal curriculm.
In addition to our horizontal curriculum, Australian schools keep adopting methods that other countries have already tried and already discarded, but we say "hey!, we'll give em a shot anyway".
there are also other socio cultural issues which impact our outcomes which other countries are not as effected by as we are due to the diversity in our multiculturalism.
oh and until a child registers as 2 years behind his same aged peers, he does not qualify for inclusion in learning support programs. He may be included by a generous school who is able to absorb the cost of implementing the program for him, or redirect funds not intended for the purposes of remediation for that child.
so we wait until a child is 2 years behind, then expect them to not only catch up to their peers at that static identified point, but to also continue to progress as his peers progress and move forward.
In short, we are not proactive, but reactive. We don't prevent problems by early intervention, we fix them.
on 04-12-2013 05:26 PM
@icyfroth wrote:
@lakeland27 wrote:i find your overly simplistic and innacurate reading of this data amusing. in order to achieve thise results students would need to go to a cram session until 11 pm at night after school each day, because thats what they do in shanghai and south korea
and taking away money would make it better ? the only person silly enough to say such a thing is chrissy fit.
Frankly, I find the way Lab Lubbies here are shredding themselves scouring for political headlines negative to our Prime Minister so they can console themselves over the abject failure of BOTH, not just one, BOTH their candidates for the Prime Ministership, quite amusing too, Lakey
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction". Albert Einstein
Frankly, I find the way you think it's ok to name call other posters rather hideous, especially as you yourself seem to have a limited grasp on the topics of the discussions.
BTW, Just who is "shredding" themselves?
on 04-12-2013 05:28 PM
@icyfroth wrote:Yes I read that article as well, Am, previous to your posting it, but it's simply more Pyne bashing, deservedly or not, and not relevant to the question of why aussie kids are slipping behind so badly in the education stakes. And that's been going on longer than Mr Pyne's been in office.
Why do you have a problem with the plan to improve our educational outcome?
on 04-12-2013 05:36 PM
@am*3 wrote:The link in the OP is Labor bashing..the journalists spin on PISA 2012.
https://www.acer.edu.au/documents/PISA-2012-Report.pdf
As lakeland mentioned the countries that did better than Aust are Asian countries. Due to very large populations students have a lot of pressure on them to excel.. extra private tutoring after school, mothers giving them lessons before they go to school. It isn't really those countries Govt education system that is the reason they are excelling, it is the time and money their parents are putting into their child.
I think Pyne (current Minister of Education) is relevant to this discussion because they way he is going, Aust school children (tested at 15yo in PISA) really will be slipping behind other countries.
Yes that's true to a point, am. But wer'e not talking about students who excel.
Wer'e talking about the standard. The news report talks of a DECLINE in numeracy and literacy, while other countries (not just the Asian countries) are pulling themselves up by their bootstraps:
Report author, ACER director of educational monitoring and research Sue Thomson, said the results were cause for national concern, despite the nation performing above the OECD average.
"While the maths and reading skills of Australian students have been declining, countries such as Poland and Ireland have improved their performance, enabling them to leapfrog over Australia," she said.
"Poland has been steadily improving since 2000 and is now ahead of Australia in maths, while Ireland has successfully reversed its own downward trend and now outperforms Australia in reading."
Dr Thomson said a "long-term view and a broad perspective" were needed to improve the quality and equity of Australian education.
"PISA has alerted the Australian school system to a decline in reading literacy achievement and now a significant decline in mathematical literacy achievement," she said.
"We must act to stop the slide."
Read more: here
So, as my*favourite*poster so rightly put it in Nero's "Will it Learn Ya" post:
"The OP made a good point that the teachers of today are (generally speaking) the ones with poor education standards, so no amount of money will help the students if those charged with the delivery of the curriculum are inept.
I know there are brilliant teachers, I do not mean to imply that all teachers are inept, but the younger generation of teachers which are emerging do seem to have a fair few members who barely made it through school themselves. Just have a look at what Uni Entry scores are required to enter Bachelor of Education. They are amongst the lowest. yet we give them the responsibility of guiding and developing our most precious resources - our children and our future.
Perhaps before we can address the poor standards of our current students, we really need to be addressing the standards of those charged with the delivery of their curriculum."
Post 16.
No amount of Abbott or Chris Pyne bashing is going to address that issue.
I have to go now, be back later.
04-12-2013 05:46 PM - edited 04-12-2013 05:47 PM
Chris Pyne is the current Minister of Education, if you expect Aust school students to pick up their game in the PISA tests, then it is his job to implement changes (including higher salaries for teachers to attract quality staff?) that will bring that around (even though I think it is parental input and students drive to succeed that is just as as lacking).. its very doubtful Pyne is up to implementing anything at all.
on 04-12-2013 05:59 PM