on 21-11-2013 08:33 AM
on 21-11-2013 10:57 AM
EPIC fail from tone and wassername Bishop
actually, where IS our foreign minister lately, she has been very quiet on this issue....
talk about how not to win friends and influence people,
one one hand, I can see tones veiwpoint, that we should not kow tow to Indonesia, on the other hand
I am shocked that is such a short time in office Bishop failed in her portfolio and Abbott has offended so greatly!
on 21-11-2013 11:08 AM
@my*mum wrote:
@izabsmiling wrote:Icy wrote"Don't know how, unless he puts some very drastic measures in place. Like refusing to allow Australian Navy boats into Indon waters fot rescue or something else the media will get a hold of and blow up to cause world outrage.
Our Navy have responsibilities and have to follow international law .Do you think that they might be outraged if told NOT to do that?
How does "I was only following orders" work as a defence?
What are the responsibilities of the Australian Navy Boats?
What does International Law say?
This is one?
Australia is a signatory of the 1974 International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea. Under this and the Law of the Sea convention, Australia is obliged to render assistance to those in danger at sea.
on 21-11-2013 11:08 AM
on 21-11-2013 11:21 AM
21-11-2013 11:24 AM - edited 21-11-2013 11:25 AM
http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm
Does anyone know why Asylum seeker boats can't claim 'Innocent Passage' ?
on 21-11-2013 11:27 AM
@izabsmiling wrote:
@my*mum wrote:
@izabsmiling wrote:Icy wrote"Don't know how, unless he puts some very drastic measures in place. Like refusing to allow Australian Navy boats into Indon waters fot rescue or something else the media will get a hold of and blow up to cause world outrage.
Our Navy have responsibilities and have to follow international law .Do you think that they might be outraged if told NOT to do that?
How does "I was only following orders" work as a defence?
What are the responsibilities of the Australian Navy Boats?
What does International Law say?
This is one?
Australia is a signatory of the 1974 International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea. Under this and the Law of the Sea convention, Australia is obliged to render assistance to those in danger at sea.
Could you please show me where it specifies the conditions of application?
Is the obligation unlimited in scope?
Are there any conditions on "obliged"?
Exemptions?
on 21-11-2013 11:46 AM
Sorry I don't have time to read it myself .It might answer some of your questions.Please let us know what you manage to find out .
Compliance with International Obligations
Australia and other States which are signatories, and the international shipping industry, are committed to upholding their respective obligations under all relevant international conventions, such as the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the International Convention on Search and Rescue, and the International Convention on the Safety of Life at Sea.
Nothing in these guidelines is inconsistent with or will derogate from Australia’s or the shipping industry’s international obligations under these conventions or the United Nations Convention on the Status of Refugees. Normal search and rescue procedures for distress signal reception and relay will be followed at all times, consistent with the International Aviation and Maritime Search and Rescue Manual (IAMSAR Manual). Australia’s compliance with its international obligations will not be compromised.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/maritime/safety/sea_rescue.aspx
on 21-11-2013 11:51 AM
@izabsmiling wrote:http://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm
Does anyone know why Asylum seeker boats can't claim 'Innocent Passage' ?
Whether Australia can legally stop a boat with asylum seekers travelling to Australia depends on precisely where the vessel is intercepted.
Australia has limited rights over boats sailing in the sea between Australia and Indonesia. Both countries are signatories to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Under this convention, the sea is divided into maritime zones.
Australia has jurisdiction over an area 12 nautical miles from the Australian shoreline (including the mainland and territories such as Christmas Island and the Ashmore Reef), which is in effect part of Australia and is known as the 'territorial sea'.
Foreign vessels have the right to 'innocent passage' through the territorial sea. Australia also has rights over a further 12 nautical miles of territory, which makes up the 'contiguous zone', within which Australia can exercise the control necessary to deal with infringement of "customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws" within Australia or its territorial sea.
While in theory Australia is legally able to stop, board and turn around vessels, the situation is complex. Australia is a signatory of the 1974 International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea. Under this and the Law of the Sea convention, Australia is obliged to render assistance to those in danger at sea.
Vessels carrying asylum seekers from Indonesia are often in poor condition and Australia is required to adhere to international safety at sea obligations. Occupants of an unseaworthy vessel cannot be left to their fate. There have also been incidents of boats being sabotaged requiring that the passengers be rescued. This possibility is acknowledged in the August 2012 Report of the Expert Panel on Asylum Seekers, which noted: "Irregular vessels carrying asylum seekers can often be quickly disabled or rendered unsafe to foil any attempted turn backs and to create a safety of life at sea situation".
The Abbott Government has said boats will only be turned back only "where it is safe to do so".
The Government can legally turn back asylum seeker boats provided it is safe to do so and they are intercepted within 24 nautical miles of the Australian coastline. It is clear that Australia cannot steer the boats into Indonesian waters, but exactly how close they can legally get to Indonesia is up for debate.
on 21-11-2013 12:19 PM
And this will not help:
As the government sought to limit damage from the phone-tapping affair, a Liberal Party senior adviser issued a series of racially-loaded remarks about top Indonesian government figures, which have been reported prominently in the Indonesian press.
Liberal Party pollster Mark Textor, who is a close counsel to Prime Minister Tony Abbott, made the front page of one of Indonesia's most prominent media outlets, the Indonesian-language Kompas newspaper for his series of abusive comments, with one likening Indonesian Foreign Affairs Minister Marty Natalegawa to a ''1970s Pilipino [sic] porn star''.
on 21-11-2013 12:25 PM
re: obligations?
this obligation would depend. I suppose, on there being an Australian vessel in the area. After all, if a vessel had to travel 400km it would take about ... what ... 20 hours at least? I don't know how fast the vessels are, but surely it must take several hours at least.
unless of course Australia is expected to have a vessel continually up in that area just in case?