Compulsory military service Whaddya reckon?

[nero_bolt]

She is an A grade bucket mouth and  nutter BUT does this idea of hers hold merit

Is it a  good idea or not

Me i like the idea

Lots of benefits would come from it and it would help a lot of unemployed youth get some experience, some training and even some pride in themselves

[fourandsixpants]

I served to am3. But same, not relevant to Mandatory or Compulsory Conscription, for many , many reasons.

Why not make it Mandatory for unemployed youth to work in Hospitals?

or prisons?

or police depts?

.....or parliament could do with some extra help

...better make sure the youth have not had any weapons training first though

[icyfroth]

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@am*3 wrote:

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@icyfroth wrote:

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@am*3 wrote:

Good idea for who? Politicians?

Not a good idea for:

The Armed Service - who would need more staff to supervise the youth forced into CMT. This costs big $$.

The unemployed youth - who have no desire to join the Armed Forces even for 6 mths.

Hence "compulsory"

You can't force people to go into the Armed Forces, even for a limited amount of time. If it was a do-able proposition it would have been in place for the last 30 years.

If they have little or no school qualifications what is the Armed Forces going to do with them for 24 months?

They wouldn't qualify for most trades, if they applied for entry into Regular Service... no Cert 1's in the Armed Forces to send them on.

Train them to physiclal fitness. Teach them survival skills. Teach them a trade. Not every walk of life needs elaborate school qualifiations. Teach them how to achieve goals, learn respect for authority and self-esteem.

You can't teach a person a trade who may not have the aptitude or the right attitude even. A person needs school qualifications to join the Regular Armed Forces.

Goals, respect... that is a load of hooey.. what line of work is the Defence Force ? Social services?

The enlisted staff in the Armed Forces - who didn't join the Army, Navy or Airforce to 'babysit' groups of youth who don't want to be there.

They don't babysit them, they train them - see my above comment. Make responsible human beings out of them (in an ideal world.)

 Who trains them? The majority of Regular Servicemen have specific jobs to attend.. they don't train each other, let alone have loads of unemployed youth to train?

What do they train them as ? Foot soldiers?  The nature of the Armed Forces means a lot of the jobs do not translate into civilian jobs.

Training takes a lot of time and money.The Armed Forces aren't TAFE's.  Why should the train people who aren't even going to be in service?. Train a regular soldiers and they may spend  20+ years in the Armed Forces.

Forced enrolment means they don't want to be there, let alone be forced to learn something someone else has chosen for them. 

There are 257 000 unemployed youth in Australia..

• The ADF workforce comprised 83,681 permanent and reserved members (2012)
  
  Do the math
  IO
• Away, it is like the Burqa ban, not likely to happen so no need to get hot under the collar about it. A passing flight of fancy for Jacqui Lambie.

I wrote a Letter to the Editor on this topic in the late 1970's when I was in the Armed Forces (NZ). It was published. I still have it somewhere.

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What made you join the defence force in NZ? I don't see why that is relevant.

It's not, of course. Just asking out of idle curiosity.

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[gleee58]

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@tall_bearded01 wrote:

Thanks

If you really want to effect social change, the Armies not the vehicle to do it.

If you want to instil into a person a sense of pride, self-discipline and a respect for others, then you do that when they are child by setting standard and enforcing them, because, if they haven't learnt those qualities by the time they are old enough to go to exotic places and get shot at, then 1 years compulsory service is not going to overcome 19 years of prior neglect.

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Do you know how many of the random shootings in Australia were carried out by people who had had some limited military training before being discharged?

I'm sure there were a few who were basically military rejects that went on to shoot random strangers.  

Anyway that's beside the point , if young people want to join defence they will apply of their own accord.  We don't need to screw over a bunch of people who aren't suited to the military being forced into joining up and we don't need to recreate the "proper men enlist" expectation in our young either.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@*lady*godiva* wrote:

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Whitlam, whilst ultimately misguided, did try to address this issue with the introduction of free university, but it made very little difference. All this policy did was provide free education to those who could afford to pay and would have gone anyway, the numbers of those excluded due to financial reasons did not increase by any significant amount. That's because the issue was that kids weren't finishing school with the required education to even apply to uni - and it was more likely that those from lower socioeconomic environments were those not finishing school/leaving early.

 Back in the dark ages, the poor couldn't afford education, even if they were capable. Now, they can. It is also social attitude and expectation - it is now pretty much expected that you won't leave school in grades 5 (my father), 8(my mother), 10 (that used to be the goalpost) the goalpost then changed to grade 12, and it is now moving towards a university education is considered to be the minimum education that future generations will require, even if they plan a trade or non tertiary career.

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Huh? None of this makes sense. 

I was  a recipient of Whitlams free education. I started uni in 85. There was NO WAY I would have dreamed that I could go to uni if it wasn't free. My parents couldn't afford it that's for sure. Back 'in the day' (ie in Whitlams days) was the first and ONLY time in this countries history that the poor COULD afford a university eduaction.

In my last year, HECS was introduced but the amount was nominal and equal across all courses.

The Howard decided that certain courses were worth more - law, medicine, architecture and any course that lots wanted to do like fashion. Fees crept up at a phenomenal rate after that.

I finished my last degree 8 years ago. I still have a $30,000 student loan that is hanging around.

Do you seriously think people can afford university now? It costs around $60,000 to do undergrad law or medicine at Sydney uni. Post grad is between $65-$110,000. It is $20,000 a year to do your masters in architecture at NSW Uni. Even a dodgy BA is going to set you back $25,000-$30,000.

How does an 18 year old afford all of that? They can't so we are back to square one - if your parents can afford it, you go to university. If they can't, you miss out.

When I was teaching uni, at least 3/4 of the kids were either international students (paying double the domestic fee) or rich kids who's parents were paying to put them through uni as their marks didnt make the grade. And this was a design course. The Business Faculty was overwhelmingly kids that could pay upfront fees.

[fourandsixpants]

Shame ineeda that when people on here with life experience give their personal experiences as 'proof' all you/we get back from some is denial and rubbish.....and then they go straight on to push some patheitic illogical political agenda to serve some economic fantasy!!

History speaks for itself. It ain't rocket science FGS!

[fourandsixpants]

to icy:

@am*3 wrote:

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@icyfroth wrote:

---

@am*3 wrote:

Good idea for who? Politicians?

Not a good idea for:

The Armed Service - who would need more staff to supervise the youth forced into CMT. This costs big $$.

The unemployed youth - who have no desire to join the Armed Forces even for 6 mths.

Hence "compulsory"

You can't force people to go into the Armed Forces, even for a limited amount of time. If it was a do-able proposition it would have been in place for the last 30 years.

If they have little or no school qualifications what is the Armed Forces going to do with them for 24 months?

They wouldn't qualify for most trades, if they applied for entry into Regular Service... no Cert 1's in the Armed Forces to send them on.

Train them to physiclal fitness. Teach them survival skills. Teach them a trade. Not every walk of life needs elaborate school qualifiations. Teach them how to achieve goals, learn respect for authority and self-esteem.

You can't teach a person a trade who may not have the aptitude or the right attitude even. A person needs school qualifications to join the Regular Armed Forces.

Goals, respect... that is a load of hooey.. what line of work is the Defence Force ? Social services?

The enlisted staff in the Armed Forces - who didn't join the Army, Navy or Airforce to 'babysit' groups of youth who don't want to be there.

They don't babysit them, they train them - see my above comment. Make responsible human beings out of them (in an ideal world.)

Who trains them? The majority of Regular Servicemen have specific jobs to attend.. they don't train each other, let alone have loads of unemployed youth to train?

What do they train them as ? Foot soldiers? The nature of the Armed Forces means a lot of the jobs do not translate into civilian jobs.

Training takes a lot of time and money.The Armed Forces aren't TAFE's. Why should the train people who aren't even going to be in service?. Train a regular soldiers and they may spend 20+ years in the Armed Forces.

Forced enrolment means they don't want to be there, let alone be forced to learn something someone else has chosen for them.

There are 257 000 unemployed youth in Australia..

• The ADF workforce comprised 83,681 permanent and reserved members (2012)
  
  Do the math
  IO
• Away, it is like the Burqa ban, not likely to happen so no need to get hot under the collar about it. A passing flight of fancy for Jacqui Lambie.

I wrote a Letter to the Editor on this topic in the late 1970's when I was in the Armed Forces (NZ). It was published. I still have it somewhere.

---

What made you join the defence force in NZ? I don't see why that is relevant.

It's not, of course. Just asking out of idle curiosity.

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................

How much military defence force time have you done icy?.....just out of idle curiosity ....

[icyfroth]

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@paintsew007 wrote:

to icy:

@am*3 wrote:

---

@icyfroth wrote:

---

@am*3 wrote:

Good idea for who? Politicians?

Not a good idea for:

The Armed Service - who would need more staff to supervise the youth forced into CMT. This costs big $$.

The unemployed youth - who have no desire to join the Armed Forces even for 6 mths.

Hence "compulsory"

You can't force people to go into the Armed Forces, even for a limited amount of time. If it was a do-able proposition it would have been in place for the last 30 years.

If they have little or no school qualifications what is the Armed Forces going to do with them for 24 months?

They wouldn't qualify for most trades, if they applied for entry into Regular Service... no Cert 1's in the Armed Forces to send them on.

Train them to physiclal fitness. Teach them survival skills. Teach them a trade. Not every walk of life needs elaborate school qualifiations. Teach them how to achieve goals, learn respect for authority and self-esteem.

You can't teach a person a trade who may not have the aptitude or the right attitude even. A person needs school qualifications to join the Regular Armed Forces.

Goals, respect... that is a load of hooey.. what line of work is the Defence Force ? Social services?

The enlisted staff in the Armed Forces - who didn't join the Army, Navy or Airforce to 'babysit' groups of youth who don't want to be there.

They don't babysit them, they train them - see my above comment. Make responsible human beings out of them (in an ideal world.)

Who trains them? The majority of Regular Servicemen have specific jobs to attend.. they don't train each other, let alone have loads of unemployed youth to train?

What do they train them as ? Foot soldiers? The nature of the Armed Forces means a lot of the jobs do not translate into civilian jobs.

Training takes a lot of time and money.The Armed Forces aren't TAFE's. Why should the train people who aren't even going to be in service?. Train a regular soldiers and they may spend 20+ years in the Armed Forces.

Forced enrolment means they don't want to be there, let alone be forced to learn something someone else has chosen for them.

There are 257 000 unemployed youth in Australia..

• The ADF workforce comprised 83,681 permanent and reserved members (2012)
  
  Do the math
  IO
• Away, it is like the Burqa ban, not likely to happen so no need to get hot under the collar about it. A passing flight of fancy for Jacqui Lambie.

I wrote a Letter to the Editor on this topic in the late 1970's when I was in the Armed Forces (NZ). It was published. I still have it somewhere.

---

What made you join the defence force in NZ? I don't see why that is relevant.

It's not, of course. Just asking out of idle curiosity.

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................

How much military defence force time have you done icy?.....just out of idle curiosity ....

---

None, of course. On this I agree with Am. It's irrelevant. You think only those who've done military service are qualified to comment on this thread?

smilieyfrustrated indeed, lol.

[softail-joanie]

I don't know what is meant by "compulsory" but I'm against focing anyone into military service. The military has it's own set of laws, rules ect. It's like you are their property from what I understand.To say a young person has to go in and be subjected to any vaccinnes, shots, experiments, DU exposure, Just,, i don't know about it. Why not just give people a choice, offer it to help them out if they need a job and income.

At best it's only a tempory fix, unless they make a carrier of it. You'll still have them coming out alittle older and the unemployment or economy problem will still be there.

I couldn't get in, outta high school and took the asfab test a few times, failed the math part. Kinda glad about that now as I am older and alittle more wise about the military. I would have came out with the same problems my cousin has from the air force. He is in bad shape really bad, from what they gave him, or subjected him to. He does have some things better now, benifits that goes with being a vet.