Unbelievable, but actually it really is quite believable.
@springyzone wrote:Don't get me wrong here, I think the quality of political leadership is very important and the USA has been through a divisive time.
But what I have noticed is Trump was not actually given a respectful start right from the get-go with the Democrats. There were complaints they had been cheated in that electoral divisions were not fair (yet they had been in power the 8 years previously, surely enough time to make them fair?)
He had a lot of the media against him from the start.
I appreciate what you say springyzone. You're right in one respect. Trump was not given a fair go by the Democrats. They are as corrupt as the Republicans. At the end of the day, the Military Industrial Complex is served before the people no matter who is in. I believe this is why there were efforts to make sure that Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders could never get elected. Yes Trump was pre judged by the public as well. IMO, he's a pig of a man and as trustworthy as a hungry pickpocket on a racecourse. Regardless of the not being given a fair go by the equally corrupt Dem's and judged buy the people, he has proven himself to be of very bad character.
With the exception of Carter and possibly Nixon, II believe every president since Kennedy has been a thug. Oh, maybe Reagan. He was just a drone controlled by Bush, Snr..
@springyzone wrote:
I'm not saying he is a great man but even people we dislike can sometimes be right, it is easy to dismiss everything an enemy says as nonsense but sometimes there can be a grain of truth in there.
Trump claims corruption in some parts of their voting system. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Not saying there was enough to have actually changed the result this time round, mind you.
And make America great again. A friend of mine (until covid hit) spent part of each year in USA and she was saying that right through middle America, she was striking huge support for Trump from people who were worried about their jobs and their standard of life. I am not saying Trump delivered everything he promised, but maybe the Democrats need to have a good look at his supporter base and what they are after, what they need. Perhaps they were being ignored by previous administrations.
All the admins have been bad. The nefarious dealings involving the Clinton and Bush dynasty are mind blowing. Have a look at The Clinton Chronicles . I caught the end of it on ABC or SBS years ago. Nichols the narrator of the film was a man of integrity even though he mistakenly thought Trump was good.
Trump is right about the corruption but I believe he is part of it too. Well, before the Corona virus was even a glint in the eye of where ever it came from Trump's promises proved to be empty. I saw a doc about working class people struggling ti get medication such as diabetic medication. One woman died and another could only take it every second day or someone. That was an empty promise that he would fix that. Politicians lie and one of the requirements that one must have to be prez is to be good at it. I believe this is why Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders were not in the race. Paul and Sanders have standards!
@springyzone wrote:
And about peaceful protest. I agree with you that over the last 12 months, the Americans have got into a habit of violence, violence as the reply to any perceived wrong. It started with the BLM riots, which quite frankly were for a man who was a violent thug and not worth it. It was worth a demand for an overhaul of police training and behaviour and penalties, but the actual violence went way beyond that.
Trump didn't help things along recently by inciting protest.
If you're talking about Floyd, I don't know if he was a thug. I think there's more to the story than we've been told. I did read that Floyd and Chauvin his killer worked at the same night club. It was a brutal killing, a murder nonetheless. So has this been exploited for another agenda and has the pain of African Americans been exploited by people with an agenda other than one BLM mov't appears to represent? YES! African Americans can endure treatment not unlike Gypsy and Jew endured during the early Nazi Germany period being stopped, frisked, checked, pushed around etc... But this mov't does not have the cred or spirit that Martin Luther King's mov't had.
@springyzone wrote:
But I wonder, at what stage can we expect people to take responsibility for their own actions? We live in a society where it is common to always blame someone else for almost everything, but surely at some point we need to say-you're an adult, you pulled out the gun (or you vandalised the building, or you bashed that person), you should know better, you'll suffer the consequences.
People do have to take responsibility and they need to be educated about this.
Walter Williams below does have some goood points.
Walter Williams: Suffer No Fools - Full Video592,710 views•Dec 30, 201583.7K subscribers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZGvQcxoAPg
@4channel wrote:
@springyzone wrote:Don't get me wrong here, I think the quality of political leadership is very important and the USA has been through a divisive time.
But what I have noticed is Trump was not actually given a respectful start right from the get-go with the Democrats. There were complaints they had been cheated in that electoral divisions were not fair (yet they had been in power the 8 years previously, surely enough time to make them fair?)
He had a lot of the media against him from the start.
I appreciate what you say springyzone. You're right in one respect. Trump was not given a fair go by the Democrats. They are as corrupt as the Republicans. At the end of the day, the Military Industrial Complex is served before the people no matter who is in. I believe this is why there were efforts to make sure that Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders could never get elected. Yes Trump was pre judged by the public as well. IMO, he's a pig of a man and as trustworthy as a hungry pickpocket on a racecourse. Regardless of the not being given a fair go by the equally corrupt Dem's and judged buy the people, he has proven himself to be of very bad character.
With the exception of Carter and possibly Nixon, II believe every president since Kennedy has been a thug. Oh, maybe Reagan. He was just a drone controlled by Bush, Snr..
@springyzone wrote:
I'm not saying he is a great man but even people we dislike can sometimes be right, it is easy to dismiss everything an enemy says as nonsense but sometimes there can be a grain of truth in there.
Trump claims corruption in some parts of their voting system. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Not saying there was enough to have actually changed the result this time round, mind you.
And make America great again. A friend of mine (until covid hit) spent part of each year in USA and she was saying that right through middle America, she was striking huge support for Trump from people who were worried about their jobs and their standard of life. I am not saying Trump delivered everything he promised, but maybe the Democrats need to have a good look at his supporter base and what they are after, what they need. Perhaps they were being ignored by previous administrations.
All the admins have been bad. The nefarious dealings involving the Clinton and Bush dynasty are mind blowing. Have a look at The Clinton Chronicles . I caught the end of it on ABC or SBS years ago. Nichols the narrator of the film was a man of integrity even though he mistakenly thought Trump was good.
Trump is right about the corruption but I believe he is part of it too. Well, before the Corona virus was even a glint in the eye of where ever it came from Trump's promises proved to be empty. I saw a doc about working class people struggling ti get medication such as diabetic medication. One woman died and another could only take it every second day or someone. That was an empty promise that he would fix that. Politicians lie and one of the requirements that one must have to be prez is to be good at it. I believe this is why Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders were not in the race. Paul and Sanders have standards!
@springyzone wrote:
And about peaceful protest. I agree with you that over the last 12 months, the Americans have got into a habit of violence, violence as the reply to any perceived wrong. It started with the BLM riots, which quite frankly were for a man who was a violent thug and not worth it. It was worth a demand for an overhaul of police training and behaviour and penalties, but the actual violence went way beyond that.
Trump didn't help things along recently by inciting protest.
If you're talking about Floyd, I don't know if he was a thug. I think there's more to the story than we've been told. I did read that Floyd and Chauvin his killer worked at the same night club. It was a brutal killing, a murder nonetheless. So has this been exploited for another agenda and has the pain of African Americans been exploited by people with an agenda other than one BLM mov't appears to represent? YES! African Americans can endure treatment not unlike Gypsy and Jew endured during the early Nazi Germany period being stopped, frisked, checked, pushed around etc... But this mov't does not have the cred or spirit that Martin Luther King's mov't had.
@springyzone wrote:
But I wonder, at what stage can we expect people to take responsibility for their own actions? We live in a society where it is common to always blame someone else for almost everything, but surely at some point we need to say-you're an adult, you pulled out the gun (or you vandalised the building, or you bashed that person), you should know better, you'll suffer the consequences.
People do have to take responsibility and they need to be educated about this.
Walter Williams below does have some goood points.
Walter Williams: Suffer No Fools - Full Video592,710 views•Dec 30, 201583.7K subscribers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZGvQcxoAPg
There has been never ending troubles in America since 1776 - just that we have observed them via media usually when there is an international issue except where there are exceptional calamities ( and including the ad nauseam annual tornado toll) - but now we are observing their national tensions and civil eruptions in minute detail as if we are the 53rd State or is that just coverage to address pandemic isolation bordom ?
