Have they determined whether the police

[donnashuggy]

Fired and hit any of the hostages yesterday yet?

[raptor_rebooted]

---

@am*3 wrote:
I don't understand your comment.

---

One of the hostages said they didn't have anything to eat.  In a cafe?  He must have denied them food.  He allowed them to use the loo, but not to eat.

They did get some food but not much for the length of time they were held hostage

how do you know they were given food?

i only heard them saying that on the videos

that were released with the demands which

means they could have been forced to say they

were given food.

[raptor_rebooted]

One of the hostages said they didn't have anything to eat.  In a cafe?  He must have denied them food.  He allowed them to use the loo, but not to eat.

They did get some food but not much for the length of time they were held hostage

how do you know they were given food?

i only heard them saying that on the videos

that were released with the demands which

means they could have been forced to say they

were given food.

[softail-joanie]

joanie they are called SOP's - standard opersting procedures, practised till you are blue in the face and they become instinctive,

like you know where your oppo is at all times, you walk up behind an oppo and touch him on the shoulder so he know you

are there and ready, you go through the door and you go right, he goes left, both sweeping the room a certain way

(if of course you don't know where someone is exactly).

Seems reasonable, but I might consider a diffrent approach

The last thing on there mind is thinking of trying to "display themselves as good honest, brave, and selfless and to gain

support from the community."

I didn't know you could read minds, must be a cool ability to have.

They will be thinking of the faces of the perp and the hostages so that if or when they go in and a face pops up in the light

or the sights, your brain had a split second to decide if it is a hostage or a terrorist. Remember it is dark as well !

Yeah, much better than my plan of just walking in and asking who's who?

Here they had ONE terrorist to remember and they had seen him so knew what he was wearing. Imagine 5 or 6 of them, most unseen or unheard and 20 - 30 hostages and having to remember all of them. (Iranian Embassy siege - 1980 was exactly as above). Also, everything is against the Police or Military who go in. It is rare that all hostages survive, you just try to minimise any deaths. So I think you are wrong.

Far be it for me to argue with a mind reader. So this is no diffrent than the way police would approach say, Kelly Thomas, or John T Williams, or that boy in Cleveland?, good to know, I just thought they would behave diffrent here in this case, but I was wrong, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[polksaladallie]

The problem is that most police officers do not have training in negotiation.  I wish they did, there would be fewer shootings in domestic violence incidents.

A section of any police force does intensive training in negotiation and TRG training.  These specialists are not "walking the beat" but have different duties.

[goldenjet16]

IMO from what I have read, it was handled correctly. Nothing to do with gaining Support from the community. As Softail suggests.

[aps1080]

joanie

Those cases you mentioned are all very different scenarios to this siege.

The police do have SOP's for standard, walk the beat jobs.

Seems reasonable, but I might consider a diffrent approach

Really ???? Proof is in the pudding that the system works.

It worked on this occassion because the police had the SOP's down pat, practised and when "it" all went sour

and the supervisor said "go, go, go" or whatever password they used, the Immediate action plan for breaching

was put into play. That is why you had 5 or 6 guys lined up behind a shield by the door all the time.

SOP for that exact scenario. SAS, Delaforce, GSG9, Police SWAT, they all have a team on immediate stanby

to go in if needed.

I can't read minds, but I said that theywould not be thinking of that because they have a 100 other far more

important things to worry about.

It's like saying they are thinking they must look "cool" and as knew they would be on TV so they wear black to look cool !!!

(there are actually a number of reasons for this)

"Yeah, much better than my plan of just walking in and asking who's who?"

You'd be dead before you got 5 paces inside in a terrorist situation.

No different ?

Objective is to neutralise the threat(s), which often means killing them but it depends on orders

and Police, Military have different rules of engagement. Their are still laws to adhere to.

[lloydslights]

---

@aps1080 wrote:

It's like saying they are thinking they must look "cool" and as knew they would be on TV so they wear black to look cool !!!

---

I reckon they look "hot" in black

Aps, can you answer this? 

Are there any women in the TRG?  Because I got an impression one was at the rear of the group behind the Police shield. 

DEB

[aps1080]

lloyd

I dont know the answer. Funnily enough, I thought one of them was a woman as well.

No females in the military assault teams.

One of the people in the bomb squad was a woman, the one in the Blue suit. The one in the Gren suit was a male.

Not sure if he was police or military. Might have been military as he wasn't armed and always had Police nearby.

They do look good in black. One of the SAS team from the Iranian embassy actually said that a black person

with a black gas mask coming at you is very intimidating indeed. They are also fire retardant overalls.

[cherry*135]

---

@*julia*2010 wrote:

---

@am*3 wrote:
I don't understand your comment.

---

One of the hostages said they didn't have anything to eat.  In a cafe?  He must have denied them food.  He allowed them to use the loo, but not to eat.

They did get some food but not much for the length of time they were held hostage

how do you know they were given food?

i only heard them saying that on the videos

that were released with the demands which

means they could have been forced to say they

were given food.

---

Could have been forced to?... 

How do you know if they were forced to say they had been given some food but weren't actually given any??

Seems strange to pinpoint another persons comment and request 'how do you know' and reply with only an assumption yourself

[cherry*135]

One of the hostages said they didn't have anything to eat.  In a cafe?  He must have denied them food.  He allowed them to use the loo, but not to eat.

They did get some food but not much for the length of time they were held hostage

how do you know they were given food?

i only heard them saying that on the videos

that were released with the demands which

means they could have been forced to say they

were given food.

[softail-joanie]

Well now we might be getting somewhere, I'm very interested in hearing (or more accuratly reading) more about this police training. By your own account, they train tirelessly, for terrorists events such as this one, hyped up to the point where it becomes instinctive. Humm. add to that, the idea that these are mearly targets rather than humans, (I couldn't do this) Wouldn't that somehow bleed of into situations of the routine everyday run in with a homeless man?, a deaf man carving on a piece of wood with a "knife" who could not hear the order to drop it? the boy who for all they knew could have had a real gun and intended to shoot them?

Where do we cross the line from humans, to terrorists in their eyes? Keep in mind, I'm speaking as one who has been accused of horrable things I could never possibly do. It wouldn't be such a stretch to think they'd take me for a terrorist, or a target, then to sell it to the public. I assure you, I'm a human.

[aps1080]

Look up youtube.

Humans to terrorists ? Not sure who classifies them as Criminals, terrorists or enemy combatants.

Nothing is ever routine in hostage situations, they are all different
as every location is different.