Heaven and hell is real

[cmcoins2000]

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@cmcoins2000 wrote:

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@cmcoins2000 wrote:

Oh dear goodness - couldn't possibly quote all of that.

The Bible has been termed the greatest book ever written.

But

In a Court of Law would be considered 'HEARSAY'.

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So you are an expert on Law now?In particular the Evidence Act?

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I should be - enough years went into it.

Not so sure if any 'evidence' & I mean 'evidence' has been physically produced of the characters referred to in the Book.

Did either exist - the shroud - well - modern science can do wonders also.

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Of course you are.I do not believe you.If you were an expert in law you would have known what you stated was nonsense.

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Given - it is Sunday 5.00pm.

Should you not be somewhere else - preaching.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

What vital TRUTH could possibly be compromised by not  knowing whether Adam and Eve (for example) actually saw God or only heard his voice?

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We were not talking about Adam and Eve.There is a vital fact.If Jacob SAW YHWH then OBVIOUSLY YHWH is NOT the Father but the Word.

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Why is it vital? does our salvation depend on whether we believe what Jacob saw was the Father or the Word - or indeed whther we believe he actually SAW anything at all?

And incidentally, how does one see a word - unless it is written down?

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Dont you mean "their salvation"?Or do you claim to be saved?

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. 

OK I'll reword that.  In your opinion does the salvation of any individual rest on whether they believe what Jacob saw was the Father or the Word - or indeed whther they believe he actually SAW anything at all?

I'm an atheist, so I don't claim anything

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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You are TOO far gone Clive.You are the one putting your spin on them and changing them from they say.It says CLEARLY that Abraham saw Him.You say it does not say that.Well there is no point in any further discussion is there?I mean it says he SAW Him and you say it does not say that.No matter what you are shown you just keep saying it does not say that.Pointless.

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So! Now you are calling John a liar - or perhaps you are saying he was on drugs when he wrote in John 1:18:

"No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, *he* hath declared [him]."

Let me restate that for you: "NO ONE HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME", and ask: WHO HAS SEEN GOD? "the only begotten Son", and I would go as far as saying THE ONLY-BEGOTTEN SON {JESUS} WAS NOT LOOKING IN THE MIRROR AT THE TIME.

End of story.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

and this in Phillipians, talking about Jesus of course:

9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1. God cannot exalt himself - after all, He is already as exalted as anyone can get.

2. God gave Jesus a name that was ABOVE every name - so, Jesus couldn't be God because His name was already above all others.

3. God gave Jesus a name that was to cause 'every knee to bend' - ALL KNEES should already bend  to God, so obviously Jesus was NOT in that position before - he was NOT GOD.

every tongue should confess what ...... 

'Jesus Christ is Lord' 

to the Glory of ... GOD - The Father, His Father.

I don't know how much PLAINER IT CAN GET.

[iapetus_rocks]

So, have you guys worked it out yet?

Have you now reached a consensus about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?