How can we have an Australia Day without a flag debate?

[i-need-a-martini]

We still have a flag that confuses the world - to the world our flag says we are still an English colony. So why oh why is it so hard to get Australians to change the thing?

After having had the misfortune of living in the midst of the Cronulla riots some years ago, I have come to hate what our flag now symbolises to many (that we are a white nation with anglo saxon ties) and would dearly love to see it changed.

I read Peter Fitz.s article this morning and couldn't agree more. Your thoughts?

I AM, you are, we are, Australian.

So why on earth, in the 21st century, do we still have a flag that reserves 25 per cent of its acreage proclaiming our allegiance, first and foremost, to Great Britain!?

Settle, Professor Flint, settle! You too, Jonesy. Settle, petals, I say! Whatever fatigue the conservative forces might feel at this subject flaring up ever more often, there is no way around it. Having a flag that declares to the world that we are Britain in the South Seas, a living relic of our colonial past, is as ludicrous as it is embarrassing.

Typically, Paul Keating said it best just over a year ago, when he noted: "We get around with the British flag in the corner of our flag. Great states do not do these things."

Who, seriously, can argue? (Apart from you, I mean, Professor and Jonesy.)

Against this most basic and obvious of assertions, a range of old chestnuts are thrown.

It is unpatriotic to speak out against the flag. Really? We want an Australian flag to feature uniquely Australian symbols, as opposed to the flag of another nation, and we're the unpatriotic ones?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It is bloody well broke. These days, the ostentatious display of the Australian flag outside a house, on bumper-stickers or the like, is more often a statement of political conservatism than patriotism pure. The Australian flag is no longer a symbol that unites us - it divides us.

It's our history. Really? Or is it just your history, as in your Anglo history? The fact that the Brits had a large part in forming Australia as it was in 1901 is reflected in the flag that was chosen then. But where in the flag is the representation of our now recognised indigenous citizens, or of the wave after wave of postwar immigrants, come from all parts of the world who have also since built the nation?

You can't believe in multiculturalism and support a flag that asserts the primacy of the Anglo race. We need a flag that reflects the equality of our citizens, not vaunts one lot over other.

Our forefathers and mothers served and died in wars under this flag, and so it can't be changed. This is the greatest chestnut of them all, and simply wrong. In the first place, in all the military books I have read, and written, I have never come across an "Iwo Jima" moment where our troops raced up a hill, or the like, to plant an Australian flag, let alone actually defended one to the death. That stuff is great for American movies, but not actually the way our wars were fought. They fought for Australia - and I honour them for it - but not specifically the flag. Besides which, the current blue ensign was only adopted at the insistence of Robert Menzies in 1954, to replace the red ensign which had broadly been our flag since 1901.

All up, is it really such a terrible thing to want an Australian flag to boast uniquely Australian symbols? For me, the answer is Eureka, but anything that does not have the flag of another nation upon it would be better than the one we have now.

Where will it all end, you ask? How about standing proudly on our own two feet, with a flag and a system of government entirely uncluttered by embarrassing proclamations of piety to another nation …

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/our-flag-should-not-be-girt-by-british-history-20130125-2dc64...

[katydidthat]

I'd like to see a combination of the Eureka flag and the Aboriginal flag ... if a majority of Aboriginal people supported that idea.  

[i-need-a-martini]

So why on earth, in the 21st century, do we still have a flag that reserves 25 per cent of its acreage proclaiming our allegiance, first and foremost, to Great Britain!?

Umm... perhaps because HM Queen Elizabeth II is still our official head of state.

So? Does the Queen forbid us to create our own flag? No!

WE are one of a very small handful of nations that have the Queen at the helm to still have th Union Jack on our flag. Everyone else has managed to create their own flag identity.

[azureline**]

yes... and Countries evolve.....

[lis351]

I heard on the radio yesterday, the suggestion for the new flag.

Blue background, good.

Southern Cross, fine.

Replace the Union Jack with green and gold stripes. ??!! WTF !!?? Yuk, the person who came up with that must be completely colourblind.

[i-need-a-martini]

yes... and Countries evolve.....

Well does that mean that we haven't evolved?

[sniper_patrol]

I remember the referendum years ago about changing the flag and the body in charge asked for submissions of design from the public. It was voted on and this was the winner.

I don't know what happened after that. I think it was hushed up for some reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ausflag_2000_a.svg

[patchoo78]

We are still predominately ruled by the Monarchy, until we have a successful vote to become a republic, then we should leave the flag as it is.. 

Has anyone thought that the Indigenous people don't want their flag to be included in ours? They seem quite happy with their own flag (the indigenous population where I am seem to be) and to me it seems a bit contradictory that we want them to retain their way of life and culture, but a lot of people are insisting that we should integrate their flag with ours.

Here is what OH thinks

"All of this of course, is overlooking the simple fact that the concept of a flag is based on outdated nationalistic pride usually with racist undertones. Championing ones people over others with some printed symbol on some cloth is the height of arrogance. No one has ever actually fought and died over a piece of cloth, they fought and died for ideals regardless of what symbol we chose to represent ourselves this century. It is literally just an avatar."

[azureline**]

yes... and Countries evolve.....

Well does that mean that we haven't evolved?

No...it means other countries have changed their flags as they evolved....we haven't changed ours,  for a few different reasons but I think it will happen.

[katydidthat]

Has anyone thought that the Indigenous people don't want their flag to be included in ours? They seem quite happy with their own flag (the indigenous population where I am seem to be) and to me it seems a bit contradictory that we want them to retain their way of life and culture, but a lot of people are insisting that we should integrate their flag with ours.

I agree Patchoo.  I love the idea of including the Aboriginal flag with the Southern Cross - but only, as I said above, if there is agreement to this by Indigenous Australians.  I think their flag and its symbolism are beautiful and meaningful, whereas the Union Jack is rather ugly (except St David's flag, of course).  

[kengillard]

If it's not broke...why try and fix it???