How trends change in regards to unpopular people in Australia

[donnashuggy]

I had breakfast with an Indian Jew this morning who came here in the seventies, we were discussing how it was then and how much it has changed, we both tended to agree that Muslims wherever they come from and Arabs in general are not so accepted in society as everyone else.

I remember it being the Greeks and Italians in those days.

We do live in a multicultural society and although I am a Catholic and she is Jewish we both have Muslim friends. My daughter goes to a state school where half of the kids are probably Jewish (I am guessing at that) her children go to a Jewish school but often cover the badge of their uniform when going to suburbs where there are lots of Muslim kids. Neither of us is racist but we both recognise one thing, that society changes to accept or not accept people and it isn't right.

Could it be the newspapers people read?

[cherry*135]

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@donnashuggy wrote:
He was born here though lol

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That's a tricky one.. how come he is not entitled to citizenship? Parents not Aust citizens?

[icyfroth]

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@gleee58 wrote:

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@icyfroth wrote:

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@simone4010 wrote:

Donna

Whilst I appreciate the point you are making, I’m rather surprised by how you have chosen to express it. To describe your breakfast companion as simply ‘an Indian Jew’ is almost contradictory to the message you are trying to present. When you describe a person by a single term, you reduce them to a one-dimensional object of the person they really are which to a certain extent, diminishes them.

Personally, I believe that whilst we continue to identify people purely in terms of race, colour, sex, age or religion rather than their lovely qualities, knowledge and attributes, we are only causing more division rather than acceptance and inclusion.

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Personally, I think not to acknowledge a person's race or creed is to efface them.

If a person is black, what's wrong with saying so? It's a form of racism to pretend you didn't notice.

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Why? We don't acknowledge the white in white people.  

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That's because we live in a predominantly white society. So far. So if you discuss any given event, most would think you're talking about a whit person unless you differentiate.

Were we to live in a predominantly black society, any event in which white ppl participate, reports would state " a white person, or several white people, simply to differentiate and identify.

I don't see a problem with that. I have no problem with being called white. Because that's the generic term used for caucasians.

To shy away from calling ppl black, when they obviously are, is to imply there's something wrong with being black, and that's just another form of racism, IMO.

[donnashuggy]

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@am*3 wrote:

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@donnashuggy wrote:
He was born here though lol

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That's a tricky one.. how come he is not entitled to citizenship? Parents not Aust citizens?

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Yes he is, just has not applied, lazy parents or they were not bothered (from NZ) just a hassle to do it as an adult

[lind9650]

I think that all the hubub about racism has only increased since the ISIS terrorist attacks and threats to not only Australia, but to the rest of this world.

Over the 57 yeears I have lived in this country, I have been through the WOG period and even the Pommy Whingers period.

A lot of people do not like change, but gradually we not only got used to the greeks fish and chips, the italian pizza and asian take aways. Now we have Indian curry places, vietnamese and thai cuisine, and workers from all over the world. And they are all hard working and accepted in society.

Some of them integrate easily and mingle with friends from other backgrounds, some stay in a closed comunity of their own origin.

I live in a small town with about one third of the population italian, but mostly it is only the men that integrate, the women are kept at home as the subservient wife they have been brought up to be. They can hardly speak english, although they have been here longer than I. I was told by one italian man that they do not want their wifes to mingle and learn our Australian ways. They are afraid their wifes would rebell and learn all about freedom and equality.  It is different with the younger generation, even if they were born in Italy, they consider themself Australian and live a free life with multicultural friends.

In a lot of cases I compere Muslim people to what the italian man told me. I have indian friends, but they are Hindu and and love interacting with all sorts of people.

Muslims are not a race. Muslims are of the Islam religion. So any dislike of their religion can not be classed as racist. It is the rejection of a religion that teaches that murder is right in Gods name, that the enslavement and rape of women is right in the name of God and a lot of ballony about a man getting 72 virgins if he kills Christians and goes to heaven.

There are African muslims, Arabic muslims, Indian muslims, Asian muslims etc. etc.

Muslims are not a race. Muslim is Islam, a religion that was created by Mohamed 600 years after Jesus was born.

With all the terrorism threats all over the world from ISIS, I just wonder why we have not heard any more denial, abomishments or rejections of this bunch of ruthless murderers from any of the Muslim Imams?

Wonder why the change? Some people just attract criticism.

Stepping off the soapbox,

Erica

[iapetus_rocks]

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@am*3 wrote:

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@iapetus_rocks wrote:

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@am*3 wrote:

I would like to know what parents tell their children - what their reasons are when they decide not to buy food items such as Vegemite, because it is Halal certified. And how that answer influences their children re religious tolerance etc.

What I am getting at is - are children influenced by their parents on race/religion/culture?

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Well of course children are influenced by what their parents teach them about religion because, all too often, the parents teach their kids one particular religion as if it were the absolute and unmitigated Truth.

The parents are propaganda agents for their religion and the poor little children, being trusting, believe their parents. It's nothing less than cruelty to innocent little kids to teach them this way.

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Yes, I see your point.

I was mainly thinking of parents that don't have a/or practice a religion of their own. These parents without religion in their lives, can still influence their children - intolerance, bigotry etc.. about other people's religion.

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I think that all parents influence their children, even if they don't mean to.

All parents propagandize their kids. Children are like sponges soaking up ideas and attitudes from their parents and their teachers and from anyone else who they see as an authority figure.

It's only the rare kids who see through this "molding" at an early age. Usually it comes later, if at all. in the teenage years.

Even parents who are atheists, mold their kids (or try to) into being little replicas of themselves.

It's a rare parent who consciously tries to bring up their children without unduly influencing them as to what ideas to believe in (maybe it's so rare as to be virtually non-existent)

We can't help but try to get people to see the world as we see it. And kids are such clean slates and mental putty that even if we try really hard, we can't avoid making an indelible impression (or at least an impression which the children might have a hard time getting rid of when they become older and a little wiser.)

We need to re-visit  that Hippocratic oath of the doctors . . . "First, do no harm . . ."

How many people even understand what they are doing to the children who they claim to love?

[j*oono]

I'm frankly wondering who is posting under your name Erica.

I have never known an Italian family that kept the woman at home.  Italian women run the household and allow their husband only so much.

Don't look at links that lead you to conspiracy and ufo sites.

[iapetus_rocks]

I don't know what it's like these days, but in the late 1970's I could guarantee that any middle aged woman of Italian birth who attended the hospital I worked in would have a very limited command of English, whereas their husbands would speak it passably well.

It's an "old world" thing . . . a thing where women are not considered nor treated as the equals of men. I saw it in the European immigrants to this country in the '60's and '70's just as I see it in the present day immigrants who are Muslim. It's a culture issue and it's only likely to change when the children of immigrants begin to understand that they don't have to bow down to the "old ways" any more . . . when they understand that they have the power and the opportunity to grasp and to seize Freedom and Equality. . . . for themselves.

[j*oono]

That's what I'm thinking iapetus.  Erica is thinking back to the 1970's.  

It's not like that now, although it might be hard for new immigrants and I've seen it at our local gym.  New members have their husband come in and check the place out first before they sign up, which to me is pretty odd.

[iapetus_rocks]

We all can quote examples.

Last year at my dentist's surgery.

A man came in and wanted to book an appointment for his wife. he asked if the dentist would be a woman and became rather angry when the receptionist said no, she couldn't guarantee that.

He was Muslim and didn't want another man looking into the mouth of his wife.

Good grief . . . how sexy is an open mouth containing teeth which need the attention of a dentist?

It's a culture problem. They want us to adapt to accomodate them, when they should be willing to adapt to the culture of the country they are coming to live in.

it's not just a culture thing though. It's a religion thing. Muslims believe in their religion and their religion teaches them that everybody else, who doesn't subscribe to Islam, is an infidel, to be despised and opposed until Islam wins out.

How can we resolve such a seemingly intractable conflict of belief?

They don't want to change and we don't want them to bring their middle ages world-view into our 21st century Australia.

[j*oono]

Well I can tell you what our old gym owner did.  She tells the husband that he is not allowed in to discuss it as it is a women's only gym.  She would go outside and answer his questions and usually they would be pretty satisfied with that.  Haha, that was the Italian owner.

Our new Australian owner is new to the biz and is more accommodating and will allow the husband inside for a brief visit.

Remember when in Australia women weren't allowed in the front bar?  Times change so quickly.