Is immigration good for us?

[ca04]

Considering tony & julia are  English immigrants what do you think.?

[i-need-a-martini]

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@diamond-halo wrote:

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@boris1gary wrote:

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@acacia_pycnantha wrote:

Immigration does all sorts of things. it adds diversity to the culture and even acts as a change agent on it.

One thing which I think that immigration does is to place a downwards pressure on wages.

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unemployment does that, conservative governments and big business (the wages thing). Immigrants don't create unemployment no matter what the crock jocks and assorted right wing spokespeople may say.

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the concept wasn't UNEMPLOYMENT, it was pressure on lower wages.

Some countries have lower wages and less benefits than we get and the people who immigrate from those countries are prepared to work at those levels and standards (generally speaking) as they are conditioned to that

This then creates less resistance if these sorts of concepts are brought here

People who immigrate generally do so for a better life, and will do whatever iot takes to get the advantagem, the leg up over another, so if that means working an hour for free to get an opportunity, they will do it (for example) because it was probably still better conditions than what they left.

This then puts pressure on the next bloke to do the same.

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Well isn't it wonderful that in this country we have those hardworking organisations called UNIONS who ensure that your wages aren't dragged down by third world immigrant workers bringing in the concept of of lower salaries and lower standards?

[*crikey*mate*]

I wasn't saying it was a good thing, I was explaining how it happened.

No need to get antsy

Not all industries are protected by the mighty union.

If the standards of one industry falls, it is harder for the next one to justify staying at the same level

[i-need-a-martini]

I wasn't getting antsy.

I was being quite serious.

And making the valid point at the same time that is relevent to todays political agenda.

[boris1gary]

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@acacia_pycnantha wrote:

I think that immigration does another thing, boris.

it suppresses development of our own training and education facilities.

Want more doctors? save on expensive universities and just import a few hundred.

Want architects, engineers, bodies able and willing to do the jobs that most Australians would want a higher wage to do? . . . look overseas; it's the cheap option.

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I don't think any of the occupations mentioned above can simply pop over here and start practising without further australian qualifications. Also I don't think any of the above are low paying or in fear of it, except maybe Dr's in QLD's hospitals.

[*crikey*mate*]

that's how it works, and that's what happens.

that's all that was being said.

unions can't and dont protect everybody from this

and over time as it becomes entrenched, it will be harder for the unions that are uaseful (apparently there are some) as the culture and ideology becomes ingrained and "normal" as numbers increase.

Just look at the different attitudes in cultures between the importance of acqdemic pursuit compared to ours.

That attitude is across ALL sectors of their culture - and their culture is focused on the complete opposite to ours.

We work, rest and play.

other cultures, work, work, work and squish in a bit of rest occasionally, and some even get to play

I am in favour of immigration 150% - but that's one of the tradeoffs for a larger population that is not self produced.

These are cultures NOT used to being reliant on ghovt help to the degree we are, so they expect it lesss and prepared to work where "we" expect a bit of a hand.

One of the big reasons I am in favour iof immigration is exactly for that - I admire the attitude and culture they bring

[kilroy_is_here]

Good, it's bloody essential

[*crikey*mate*]

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@boris1gary wrote:

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@acacia_pycnantha wrote:

I think that immigration does another thing, boris.

it suppresses development of our own training and education facilities.

Want more doctors? save on expensive universities and just import a few hundred.

Want architects, engineers, bodies able and willing to do the jobs that most Australians would want a higher wage to do? . . . look overseas; it's the cheap option.

---

I don't think any of the occupations mentioned above can simply pop over here and start practising without further australian qualifications. Also I don't think any of the above are low paying or in fear of it, except maybe Dr's in QLD's hospitals.

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and I only know about some subjects, so don't know if this applies to all, but I do know that in areas we have shortages, the university costs for these are significantly less.

ie most math courses are currently "national emergency" and are thus dirt cheap for australian students.

and I suspect in those courses listed it isn't money preventing people from doing thenm, but moreso ability or desire.Those uni courses are commanding the top 5% of academic acheivement.

and as our population is only relatively small, 5% is not a huge pool from which to draw people if they WANT to go those fields,

So it's not about not wanting to fund it, we simply don't have the population to supply it.

BTW, international students is classified as education export and it is a GOOD THING.

Every full paying international student makes it possible for 5 of ours to get their education for no cost to the govt.

[amber-eyed-girl]

d-halo, in Melbourne, there were numerous training colleges which were not supplying an education, but a visa rort.

come here, study at one of these colleges, and apply for permanent residency, where money for visa promises was paid.

they included nursing, cooking. The courses were funded as college places, i.e. uni level, by the tax payer. So a double rort.

most of these so-called colleges were shut down in a huge scandal.

not every international student is a positive. Not everyone desires an education.

not every international student place funds five for Australians.

the above is fact.

the system is open to problems.

[boris1gary]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

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@diamond-halo wrote:

---

@boris1gary wrote:

---

@acacia_pycnantha wrote:

Immigration does all sorts of things. it adds diversity to the culture and even acts as a change agent on it.

One thing which I think that immigration does is to place a downwards pressure on wages.

---

unemployment does that, conservative governments and big business (the wages thing). Immigrants don't create unemployment no matter what the crock jocks and assorted right wing spokespeople may say.

---

the concept wasn't UNEMPLOYMENT, it was pressure on lower wages.

Some countries have lower wages and less benefits than we get and the people who immigrate from those countries are prepared to work at those levels and standards (generally speaking) as they are conditioned to that

This then creates less resistance if these sorts of concepts are brought here

People who immigrate generally do so for a better life, and will do whatever iot takes to get the advantagem, the leg up over another, so if that means working an hour for free to get an opportunity, they will do it (for example) because it was probably still better conditions than what they left.

This then puts pressure on the next bloke to do the same.

---

Well isn't it wonderful that in this country we have those hardworking organisations called UNIONS who ensure that your wages aren't dragged down by third world immigrant workers bringing in the concept of of lower salaries and lower standards?

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my point was immigration does not put downward pressure on wages - unemployment (among a couple of other things i mentioned,) does.

[acacia_pycnantha]

Immigration can contribute towards a downward pressure on wgaes if many of those immigrants cannot find a job here and thus swell the ranks of the unemployed.