Royal Commission into sexual abuse ... Cardinal Pell accused of bribery

[bright.ton42]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-20/cardinal-george-pell-tried-to-bribe-paedophile-victim-inquiry/...

"I remember with clarity the last three lines we spoke together.

"Me: Excuse me, George, what the **bleep** are you talking about?

"George: I want to know what it will take to keep you quiet.

"Me: **bleep** you, George, and everything you stand for."

Of course Pell denies this... and I'm wondering how they will get to the truth of it.

If it is true then it is appalling.

[bluecat*dancing]

Pell is a disgraceful person.

[watta*drama*queen]

Raise your glass to Tim Minchin !

[lurker172602]

I've always quite liked Tim Minchin.  Now I think I might just love him. 

[tommy.irene]

They are still at it..

[tommy.irene]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/10/catholic-bishops-not-obliged-report-clerical-child-abus...

[tommy.irene]

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-Catholic-priest-frozen-out-Florida-Church-informing-pedofile-...

[***super_nova***]

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@village_person wrote:

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@bright.ton42 wrote:

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@village_person wrote:

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@bright.ton42 wrote:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-20/cardinal-george-pell-tried-to-bribe-paedophile-victim-inquiry/...

"I remember with clarity the last three lines we spoke together.

"Me: Excuse me, George, what the **bleep** are you talking about?

"George: I want to know what it will take to keep you quiet.

"Me: **bleep** you, George, and everything you stand for."

Of course Pell denies this... and I'm wondering how they will get to the truth of it.

If it is true then it is appalling.

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Be vewy vewy careful where you go with this topic. Some of the eBay cognoscenti think mentioning religion is akin to racism. Statements about religion is equipotent with racism in the eyes of some. A double barrel warning for you.

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OK I hear you,  but there is a  public royal commission going on right now and of course people will have opinions  as

more is revealed.  I'm not commenting on the Catholic religion per se as many other religions have their own skeletons in the

closet, but right now it is the Catholic personnel who are under scrutiny. 

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b42, my comment was tongue-in-cheek. I was trying to highlight how shallow some people are with their idiotic comments.

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Really?  So it is idiotic when we say that calling all Muslims terrorists and paedophiles, and we are idiots when we do not bring religion into it when talking about Pell? 

Of-course, the church comes into it when there were so many paedophiles part of the church, and their superiors knew and protected the perpetrators. It's the churches and organizations, which were responsible for welfare of children that failed.  But it has NOTHING to do with the religion and ordinary people of that religion.

[***super_nova***]

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

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Really?  So it is idiotic when we say that calling all Muslims terrorists and paedophiles, and we are idiots when we do not bring religion into it when talking about Pell? 

Of-course, the church comes into it when there were so many paedophiles part of the church, and their superiors knew and protected the perpetrators. It's the churches and organizations, which were responsible for welfare of children that failed.  But it has NOTHING to do with the religion and ordinary people of that religion.

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Not sure what happened but part of  sentence fro my post went missing:  "So it is idiotic when we say that calling all Muslims terrorists and paedophiles is ridiculous",  and by the time I realised I could not edit 😞

[azureline**]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-22/hodge-minchin-pell-the-sorry-state-of-public-debate/7189568

Tim Minchin seems to be more interested in provoking reaction than dealing with the facts about George Pell. When we engage in name-calling and abuse, we fail those who deserve truth and justice, writes Joel Hodge.

Should we be concerned that someone can be called 'scum', a 'pompous buffoon' and a 'coward' in mainstream discourse? Even if that someone has been subject to widespread criticism?

Tim Minchin's new song "Come Home (Cardinal Pell)" gives an indication of the level of public debate in Australia at present.

The fact that we can coat abusive language about a religious leader with pleasing music should not hide the damage that is done to all of us.

This should be even more concerning because it damages a process that is meant to establish the facts about very serious matters: the sexual abuse of children.

Public debate and discourse, of course, should be robust, but it should be discourse, not monologue. The danger of monologue is that it turns public discourse into mob lynching.

I am not trying to defend Cardinal George Pell, but I am interested in provoking assessment of our public discourse and the remarkably strong language and feeling that have been on display over the past week.

In this regard, it is worthwhile reviewing some key facts about Cardinal Pell in order to assess the level of public discourse at present, particularly with regards to Minchin's song that has captivated so many.

[azureline**]

Firstly, despite what Tim Minchin sings, Cardinal Pell is not just 'crook' but has a serious heart condition supported by professional medical opinion. Should Cardinal Pell still come in person to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse? What if he did and he then suffered a serious medical incident on his journey to Australia? Are we willing to risk someone's health or life to compel evidence in person that could be given over video link?

Secondly, Cardinal Pell has already appeared twice before the Royal Commission, once in person. He also appeared before the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry into the Handling of Child Abuse by Religious and other Organisations.

Thirdly, Cardinal Pell has no criminal charges against him. There are reports of a new police investigation. Cardinal Pell has denied any wrongdoing. He has been investigated once before and the allegations were found to be without sufficient foundation. The police are charged with investigating these matters, but as it stands, Cardinal Pell has not been charged with any offence or even been interviewed.

Fourthly, Cardinal Pell established an independent process for victims of abuse by the clergy (and those under the responsibility of the Catholic Church) to have their allegations assessed and provide support and compensation to them (called the 'Melbourne Protocol'). He was the first Catholic Church leader in Australia to establish such a process.

These points do not preclude Cardinal Pell from criticism or investigation, nor am I trying to manufacture sympathy for Cardinal Pell. Our concern should be with the victims, first and foremost.

However, criticism must be well-informed and factual. Otherwise, public debate is debased.

These points, however, have not been discussed by Tim Minchin and the journalists who promote his song.

Minchin's claim that Pell worked "hard to protect the church's assets" is questionable given the fact he established the Melbourne Protocol. In any event, Minchin does not provide evidence for his claim.