SOCIALISM

[nero_bolt]

An open discussion of the merits and downsides of  SOCIALISMS comrades (and toss in capitalism) 

So who would like to see Australia turn into a Socialist country with the full socialist mantra?

Should people that work hard and make something of their lives simply share it with others who dont?  As is the socialist way.

Should companies and business share all their profit with their workers, again as is the socialist way... 

Should someone who starts a business and works long hours and works hard just hand over their efforts to their staff under the banner of socialism?

Does socialism work?  

So peoples thoughts and views... POLITE posts please on the socialist mantra 

[i-need-a-martini]

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@silverfaun wrote:

Equating democracy with a little bit of socialism is like saying someone is just a little bit pregnant.

 But democracy with a strong ideal of social justice is my preference. Socialism without democracy is anathema to most thinking people and pure socialism is on the wrong side of history. 

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I agree with your last sentence silverfaun. 

However, I am surprised to hear you say this as most of your views are right leaning which are usually the opposite of what I would term social justice - regulated markets, equality in education, workers rights, strong welfare opportunities etc.

But I am more than happy to hear that this is your preference. 

[**meep**]

"However those countries with capitalist economies and strong socialist leanings are the ideal we should all aspire to. Norway, Finland and Canada come to mind."

Using Scandinavian countries as examples to support socialism is a bit outdated.  Why would you aspire to something that is unsustainable?  (I know Canada is not in Scandinavia but the same argument applies)

Free health care is great as long as it is quality care. 

[i-need-a-martini]

Oh-kay...

Let's take Canada as an example.

They consistently fall high in the index for standard of living (Norway always tops this list). They have a consistently strong economy and the country is considered globally wealthy.

Yet they have the high regulation and social systems that socialists aspire to and capitalists despise.

So what is unsustainable about Canada? 

[**meep**]

Lets start in the right order and begin with the Scandinavians.  You attribute the 'success' to capitalist economies and strong socialist leanings.   I  disagree with that.

OK, Canada.  You will have to help me out there.  I know their health care system is in trouble and unemployment is rising.

Could you please, or anyone,  post a link to the standard of living index?  (Sorry, no time atm)  I know Australia was ranked 2nd for a while.  Are we still up there?

[nero_bolt]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

Oh-kay...

Let's take Canada as an example.

They consistently fall high in the index for standard of living (Norway always tops this list). They have a consistently strong economy and the country is considered globally wealthy.

Yet they have the high regulation and social systems that socialists aspire to and capitalists despise.

So what is unsustainable about Canada? 

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Yes lets take Canada

 Canada has a mostly a free market economy, but has a very extensive welfare system that includes free health and medical care. 

Having universal healthcare and a welfare system  like so many  other industrialised nations  including Australia  does not make Canada suddenly socialist, because that's not what socialism is. Universal healthcare and welfare  is no more socialist than public education or a police department is. In Canada, they have very high taxes, but high taxes isn't "socialist" either.

Socialism is when the state dictates economic production. Socialism is when the state controls the market. How is Canada "socialist"?

Now in Canada The Queen, you know the one that lives in that big house in London is head of State as Canadia has a  Constitutional Monarchy

Canadian Government
Federal Parliamentary with a Constitutional Monarchy

• Monarch Elizabeth II
• Governor General 
• Prime Minister 
• Chief Justice 

Legislature Parliament   The same as Australia Has
Upper house Senate 
 Lower house House of Commons

So please tell me INAM how is Canada a socialist country with a system like Australias and a Constitutional Monarchy?

[silverfaun]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

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@silverfaun wrote:

Equating democracy with a little bit of socialism is like saying someone is just a little bit pregnant.

 But democracy with a strong ideal of social justice is my preference. Socialism without democracy is anathema to most thinking people and pure socialism is on the wrong side of history. 

---

I agree with your last sentence silverfaun. 

However, I am surprised to hear you say this as most of your views are right leaning which are usually the opposite of what I would term social justice - regulated markets, equality in education, workers rights, strong welfare opportunities etc.

But I am more than happy to hear that this is your preference. 

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 No wonder you are at odds with all conservatives if that is what you believe all conservatives believe and it is a bit insulting to assume thats the norm.

After doing the ABS's questionaire my political beliefs put me in the middle along with Labor so we want the same things but take a different view on how to achieve them.

[boris1gary]

As there is nothing in the op that pertains to socialism either in theory or practice, may I suggest politely

educate, educate, educate

and try again.

[nero_bolt]

Instead of starting a  new thread I thought I would bring this one back as we have so many socialists on this forum  and at least 1 admitted card carrying member of the socialist/communist party

So a question

[aps1080]

Very good Nero, very good indeed.

[nero_bolt]