22-09-2014 08:59 AM - edited 22-09-2014 09:00 AM
on 10-10-2014 07:22 AM
http://m.theage.com.au/comment/burqa-ban-a-political-excuse-for-persecution-20141002-10p0mc.html
Even before the embarrassing back-down there were problems. For starters, it's not a burqa. A burqa is that particularly Afghan garment, usually blue, with the mesh covering the eyes. The one you've seen on the news (or perhaps on Jacqui Lambie's Facebook page), but almost certainly never in Australia. We're talking about the niqab, common in the Gulf and worn by – my guess – a couple of hundred Australians. I have to guess, because we don't even bother with such basic research before we consider banning such things.
It says everything that we can't even get the name right; that merely to be understood in the argument, you must get it wrong.
Of itself, it's not a big deal, but it symbolises the calibre of the public conversation. It's as if we're demanding a pernicious, industrial-scale ignorance. As if we're proud of it. We'll tell these women what their clothing signifies. We'll tell them why they wear it. We'll even rename it for them if we want. These women will be deconstructed and reconstructed at our will, and without their involvement. These are the terms of the debate and the most influential voices will be the most ignorant.
But ignorance is no barrier precisely because this debate really has nothing to do with the women being recast as some kind of problem. Strip it all back and they've done nothing to invite this. They aren't the ones charged with plotting "demonstration killings". They aren't the ones being busted carrying weapons or attacking police officers.
They are, however, the ones most often assaulted or abused on the street or on public transport. They're the ones whose freedom we try most to restrict.
In short, they become the symbolic target for our rage; the avatar we choose to represent a generalised enemy, and the threat it poses. In this, we obey what seems a diabolically universal principle: that whatever the outrage, whatever the fear, and whatever the cause, it is women that must suffer first and most.
So perhaps you'll forgive these women if they don't come out in droves to thank Senator Cory Bernardi for rescuing them from what he regards a "shroud of oppression" that "represents the repressive domination of men over women".
Perhaps you'll understand they see something other than feminist concern in these words; that Bernardi might look to them a lot like Lord Cromer did to the Egyptian women he colonised in the 19th century.
Cromer similarly decided Egyptian women needed emancipation, and that that they should therefore remove their veils. Meanwhile, back in England, he was the president of the Men's League for Opposing Woman Suffrage.
Before the change of heart it was a burqa ban (see, even I'm doing it now) in Parliament House. The argument was about security, but it's a thin pretext. If you need to identify someone entering the building, it's dead easy to do: you take them aside to a private space and ask them to reveal their face for identification purposes. Then you subject them to the same screening as everyone else.
10-10-2014 07:58 AM - edited 10-10-2014 07:59 AM
@village_person wrote:Do try and keep up Peggy.
Grammar still wanting, Lothar
on 10-10-2014 08:45 AM
on 10-10-2014 09:13 AM
@karliandjacko wrote:
@ufo_investigations wrote:This thread is full of arguments for and against the burka I think there is a solution the government should make law.
A Bill should be introduced into Parliament to ban "all face coverings" everything and everything.
helmets, balaclavas, burkas etc....
Fines should be like this:
1st offence - warning
2nd offence - $500
3rd offence $1000
4th offence $10,000 + 1 month jail
If it is banned for everyone it is fair no one can say it is discrimination.
That wouldn't be fair. People wear balaclavas to work in cold spaces.
Brides sometimes like to cover their face before some point in the ceremony.
Bike riders like full face helmets so they don't munch insects or get them up their nostrils.
I can't see any good reason for such huge dramas over a couple of hundred burqa wearing women. It doesn't seem like an honest non racist argument to me. It has people who have never seen anyone wearing a burqa feeling afraid and imagining that they are taking over our cities, therefore our country. I think friendly dialogue is more likely to successfully lead to change than outlawing the garments. The garments don't hurt anyone.
Islam is not a race it is a religion of peace. How can you say it is racist?
on 10-10-2014 09:17 AM
@karliandjacko wrote:
@ufo_investigations wrote:They are trying to get me to eat halal but they wont eat bacon how do you work that out?
Who's trying to get you to eat halal?
I was crucified in the other thread "Living with the Enemy" when someone asked why Ben wouldn't eat halal. My reply was that could be because he is Catholic and then I went on to say that I don't eat halal because it is against my religion. Then a bunch of posts said that eating halal is not against my religion and so on... I don't eat it because the Bible is the word of God and that is what I follow.
on 10-10-2014 09:31 AM
so ufoinvestigations, good luck with your new non Halal diet - it is very restrictive and you will probably need to speak to a GP about it first as the foods you choose not to eat are, (below) be careful about vitamin/mineral supplements as a lot of them aren't much use
The following products are definitely Halal:
1. Milk (from cows, sheep, camels, and goats)
2. Honey
3. Fish
4. Plants which are not intoxicant
5. Fresh or naturally frozen vegetables
6. Fresh or dried fruits
7. Legumes and nuts like peanuts, cashew nuts, hazel nuts, walnuts, etc.
8. Grains such as wheat, rice, rye, barley, oat, etc.
on 10-10-2014 09:33 AM
crucified?
lol, no, asked for reasons and clarification.
on 10-10-2014 09:37 AM
@boris1gary wrote:so ufoinvestigations, good luck with your new non Halal diet - it is very restrictive and you will probably need to speak to a GP about it first as the foods you choose not to eat are, (below) be careful about vitamin/mineral supplements as a lot of them aren't much use
The following products are definitely Halal:
1. Milk (from cows, sheep, camels, and goats)
2. Honey
3. Fish
4. Plants which are not intoxicant
5. Fresh or naturally frozen vegetables
6. Fresh or dried fruits
7. Legumes and nuts like peanuts, cashew nuts, hazel nuts, walnuts, etc.
8. Grains such as wheat, rice, rye, barley, oat, etc.
"new non halal diet"?
This is not a new non halal diet. I have been doing this for years.
on 10-10-2014 09:42 AM
Interested in what you would eat if you don't eat the above.
on 10-10-2014 09:49 AM