Should the niqab (full veil) be worn in Schools?

[lind9650]

England has a problem and I think it will spread.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jan/26/schools-inspector-issues-veil-warning

I believe that if a School has specific uniform rules, then all students must wear the same uniform regardless of where they came from.

Erica

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@village_person wrote:

It's odd that people are expected to turn up at lecture/class times; observe lunch time when it arrives; report for lecture/class after lunch; go home when school/uni is finished for the day yet they don't like to be told what to do. Have any of them refused to go home at the end of the day stating that they won't be told that lectures/classes are over for the day?

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Not odd at all, VP We are talking about teenagers.

[gem-boy-g]

there is a safety aspect, in a science class flowing veils and bunson burners are not a good mix

[johcaschro]

Some schools are state-run establishments and some are privately owned and run.

Private schools (what the English call public schools , because the public can pay to access them) are allowed to operate under some different rules. Some are Catholic schools and some are Islamic schools and some are a bit indeterminate but might be C of E or otherwise . . . and some are nominally secular schools.

anyway, these private schools have, historically, been allowed some lattitude in their ability to select teachers of say, a certain religion or to specify a certain code of dress for both staff and pupils.

Aside from all this, a school is a place of education and education involves the effective communication of ideas.

It is established that a large part of human interaction and communication is of a non-verbal nature and that a large part of this non-verbal communication is contained in people's facial expressions; their smile, their frown, their raising or lowering of one side of their lip, etc, etc.

Given that one purpose of a school is communication (of intentions, truths, ideas and of facts) then it's a fact that the wearing of a face-covering garment by either the teacher or the pupil is guaranteed to hinder and stifle communications and therefore, the effective delivery of education.

it both hinders learning and it hinders teaching.

There's no place in a school for the  intentional concealment or stifling of communications, and for that reason alone, the wearing of face-covering garments in schools should be prohibited.

[electric*mayhem*band]

                                    

[lloydslights]

Well said, johca.

Continuing on that same vein....school is preparing the students for the workforce and future employment.  

I doubt if a person wearing the full covering would be readily accepted in most workplaces.  

Almost unemployable other than in a religious environment, I'd say. 

DEB

[***super_nova***]

Your points are very valid.  The problem is that wearing niqab is nowadays very complex issue.  The underlying reasons for wearing it will not go away just by banning niqab.  I definitely agree that teachers should not be allowed to cover their face, but teenagers, more you say NO to them, more they rebel.  It is a fine line between such things like safety and being just petty.  My guess would be that if ignored, most teenagers will "grow out of it".  And we should be greatful that they express their rebelion only  by covering their faces.

  Of-course, if some parents insist that their daughter has to wear niqab, then they should probably send her to Islamic school, where the sexes are segregated, and all the religious rules are followed.

BUT the situation in Europe is so tense, with millions of displaced Muslims around the world, who blame the west for the mess in Middle East, such laws are only pouring fuel on the fire. 

[raptor_rebooted]

maybe the community leaders

should be working with the 

authorities rather than showing

opposition?

these 'conspicuous religious symbols'

laws apply to everyone.  they are not

targeting muslims. this message needs

to come from the religious leaders and

parents.

My guess would be that if ignored, most teenagers will "grow out of it".  And we should be greatful that they express their rebelion only  by covering their faces.

what message is that going to 

send to all the others who obey

the rules? 

or are you saying you disagree with

the policy in general?

[***super_nova***]

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@*julia*2010 wrote:

what message is that going to 

send to all the others who obey

the rules? 

or are you saying you disagree with

the policy in general?

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The laws only backfired in France.  Yes, it applies to all religious symbols, but everybody knows it was introduced to prohibit Muslim religious symbols, and the Muslims took it personally.

Is wearing niqab actually against any rule in UK though?  From the article, which I only speed read, it doestn's seem to be, yet.

There are so many terrifyingly huge issues facing Europe in this moment.  So, lets worry about handful of teenagers who want cover their face. 

[***super_nova***]

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@*julia*2010 wrote:

what message is that going to 

send to all the others who obey

the rules? 

---

Schools should have necesary rules, important rules, which have to be obeyed.  If they make petty, unimportant or discriminating rules then the whole system ends in mess.

[raptor_rebooted]

Sir Michael Wilshaw, Ofsted's Chief Inspector, has made a statement on the wearing of the full veil in schools.

Ofsted’s Chief Inspector today gave his full support to school and college leaders who decide to take a stand against the inappropriate wearing of the veil.

Sir Michael Wilshaw has now instructed his inspectors to mark down institutions if they judge the wearing of the veil is acting as a barrier to learning and to positive social interaction.

His intervention follows comments by the Prime Minister and the Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, last week, when they said individual public organisations should be free to put in place sensible rules on the issue of face coverings.

Sir Michael said:

The Prime Minister and Secretary of State are right to give their backing to schools and other institutions which insist on removing face coverings when it makes sense to do so.

I am concerned that some heads and principals who are trying to restrict the wearing of the full veil in certain circumstances are coming under pressure from others to relax their policy. I want to assure these leaders that they can rely on my full backing for the stance they are taking.

I have also made clear to my inspectors that where leaders are condoning the wearing of the face veil by staff members or by pupils when this is clearly hindering communication and effective teaching, they should give consideration to judging the school as inadequate.

I am determined to ensure that discrimination, including on the grounds of gender, has no place in our classrooms. We want our schools, whether faith schools or non-faith schools, to prepare their pupils equally for life in 21st century Britain. We need to be confident our children’s education and future prospects are not being harmed in any way.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-by-hm-chief-inspector-on-the-wearing-of-the-full-veil-i...

david cameron:

“What does matter is if, for instance, a school has a uniform policy, sensitively put in place and all the rest of it, and people want to flout that uniform policy, often for reasons that aren't connected to religion, you should always come down on the side of the school.”