Yeah sure. I can understand why you Americans are real proud of your gun laws...NOT!

[i-need-a-martini]

Toddler shoots his mum dead whilst she is changing his nappy.

http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/life-style/current-affairs/a-horrible-horrible-accident-toddler-shoo...

[*pepe]

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

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@*pepe wrote:

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@boris1gary wrote:

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@*pepe wrote:

blaming gun laws or lack thereof is just another way of passing the buck so stupid people don't have to take responsibility for their own actions.

do you really want to live in a world where every possibility of harm is governed by a law?

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gun laws work statistics prove it.

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tell that to the unarmed defenseless hostages killed and injured and their families....

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Do you really think that if somebody was armed it would end up better ?   Nobody could be sure if there is a bomb in the backpack.  Look at the shaking terrified people running into street; do you think any would have been able to get handgun out, aim and shoot without being shot first?  Dream on.

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we'll never know will we.

[aps1080]

He had a shotgun, not a submachine gun.

A British PC carried a hidden revolver during the Iranian embassy siege for 6 days. When the SAS assaulted, he pulled it out and wrestled with one of the terrorists. Before he could shoot him, the SAS burst into the room, told him to move away (which he did) and then they stitched him up.

Its not the shaking terrified one's you want, they are unlikely to want to carry.

[***super_nova***]

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@aps1080 wrote:

A person with a concealed carry pistol might have had the opportunity.

He obviously let his guard down a couple of times.

Their is a precendent for someone having a concealed weapon on them and getting the chance to use it.

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That is assuming awful lot.  If there was a bomb it could have killed everybody in the coffee shop plus many people who were in the building above; if it happened before the building was evacuated.  It is always easy to know what would be a better option afterwards.  Not to mention that the aggressor has always the advantage of having weapon already in his hand. 

[i-need-a-martini]

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@aps1080 wrote:

He had a shotgun, not a submachine gun.

A British PC carried a hidden revolver during the Iranian embassy siege for 6 days. When the SAS assaulted, he pulled it out and wrestled with one of the terrorists. Before he could shoot him, the SAS burst into the room, told him to move away (which he did) and then they stitched him up.

Its not the shaking terrified one's you want, they are unlikely to want to carry.

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It was a pump action shot gun. Hardly an easy weapon to overcome.

[***super_nova***]

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@aps1080 wrote:

Its not the shaking terrified one's you want, they are unlikely to want to carry.

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When something like that happens people go into a shock; you can never know how an individual would react.  Just because people are confident and look unflappable in normal situation does not mean they will not turn into blabbering mess in extreme situation.   The thing is that if somebody started to fumble with a gun they would need clear view of the gunman with no other hostages in the way and then be sure they will be able to shoot before the gunman does.  You only have one target.  While  if the gunman has a crowd, so if he shoots first he is likely to kill somebody, if he misses you there is still a good chance he would hit another one of your fellow hostages.   And considering that gunman in such a situation knows he is going to die, most likely wants to die it's win/win for him.  But the police had a clear view of him through the window, I imagine the reason they did not shoot him was that they did believe explosives were present. 

[aps1080]

Dangerous to try to shoot people throw plate glass windows. Bullets deflect.

Yes, I still get the shakes occasionally, both when up close and dangerous and no pressure at all.

[polksaladallie]

One of the tools that negotiators use (if there is no evidence of urgency) is to drag it out until the person becomes tired.  They did this, he did get tired, and from what I read, the hostages thought they would try to escape, and it all went wrong.  They weren't to know, they had no way of getting advice from the police.

[***super_nova***]

If people would be allowed to carry concealed weapon then anytime a would be criminal wanted a gun, all what he would need to do is to snatch someones handbag.  As it is, yes, if people really really want to get gun they will get something, but  their option are limited.  What ever is available now would be many times more if we did not have the existing laws.  🙂

[harley_babes_hoard]

Our guns laws work well don't they

[myoclon1cjerk]

Better than they do in the USA.Here's the latest one.

Six family members were killed and one was seriously wounded in shootings at three locations in suburban Philadelphia, and a manhunt was underway for a former U.S. Marine, authorities in Montgomery County said Monday.