Buyer claiming S.N.A.D - complex case

[seaworthee1]

To cut a long story short:

1) Sent a camera with accessories to a buyer.

2) Buyer claims that accessories were sent in box, but not the camera body. Claims that the box was not tampered with. 

3) Buyer opens a dispute in Paypal almost immediately after receiving said item, escalates it to a claim after I said I packed everything in the box. Did not give me a chance to seriously investigate the matter or come up with some sort of amicable solution.

4) I have provided documentary evidence of tracking, postage etc, photos - but obviously this proof is useless in a SNAD case.

5) I've also rang Australia Post and they confirmed it was delivered, and that it wasn't opened for routine inspection or anything like that. There is now an investigation underway as to the whereabouts of this item. 

I suspect Australia Post will rule against my claim because as far as they are concerned, the item was delivered (albeit apparently missing the auction item). I'm also fairly likely to lose in the dispute with PayPal, as buyers are wholly protected in cases of items significantly not as described provided they return the item.

Is there any recourse of action for myself? The buyer is in the process of filing a police report and signing a stat dec, all because I sent an item I knew to be 100% accurate and true to the listing. I have been now advised to file a police report and stat dec myself, but this **bleep**-for-tat business doesn't seem like it will produce a result in the end. It will be a case of his stat dec versus my stat dec, and so on. 

It might also be unwise of me to file a police report if I am not sure the buyer has kept the item and is claiming that he did not receive it in full. Australia Post are investigating things on their end but it would appear to take a lot more time than it takes to resolve an average PayPal dispute.

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.

[character_parties_aus]

You can still perhaps get the buyer on the weight. before you open the packet upon return weigh it in front of witnesses and take a picture.  was it sent back under the same weight as it was received?

might even be worth letting the buyer know you have the weight of the item once sent ( which you may or may not) and let them know you will weight it on return and if there is a descrepency you will report it to the police? will put the wind up them.

australia post weight everything nowadays so maybe they have a record of how much it weighed when it went to them?

I will ask my eparcel account manager tomorrow if they can retreive item weights. he can probably circumvent the usual ringing up rubbish.

[lizzy6107]

This is one buyer we can all definitely add to our special lists.. what a crook!

[cq_tech]

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@seaworthee1 wrote:

You raise some valid points digitalghost, especially your last paragraph. I have since discovered that the buyer has left a total of fourteen (14) negative feedback transactions regarding 'item not received' and 'not as decribed' in the past 12 months, with one seller even mirroring my experience where he escalated to a claim pronto. 14 in the last 12 months seems excessive to me, I understand things go missing in the mail periodically but you can't be this unlucky surely. I'm confident that if I went back further than 12 months I would find similar instances of this feedback.

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I'd suggest from his feedback that's it's fairly obvious he's tried this on with other sellers and Paypal aren't stupid and will almost certainly have an active file on this buyer. At this stage I'm unsure how this is going to help you but given the circumstances, even if they find against you, it's entirely possible that Paypal may not penalise you by making you refund the buyer's payment and will quite possibly reimburse the buyer by way of a discretionary payment instead. I know this is how they've handled such cases in the past and I sincerely hope they have the decency to do the same thing in this particular case.

Can you possibly PM me the buyer's user ID? I'd love to check his previous feedback myself as well as adding him to my BBL.

[i-love-my-sheep]

If his feedback is as you described, then I think you really need to keep fighting this as he has 'history'. I'm sure if you checked the sellers of those feedback, you will probably find they are also expensive items.

I would keep absolutely everything you have pertaining to this transaction and if Paypal take a refund from you without the item being sent back, I would report it both to the FOS and the police. You should be able to file a report at your local police station, if not, report it to the online fraud squad. You have all the buyers details, so it will be easier to make a report.

Take screenshots of the order details page and file any correspendance from this buyer so nothing is at risk of being accidentally deleted.

I would also take a screenshot of their feedback. You can find out their entire feedback history by using http://toolhaus.com Put their username in the box and select feedback left by. It will show all the negative and neutral feedback left by that buyer for others. If there is more than what you have already seen, take a screen shot of that page.

I would also be happy if you PM'd me his username as I too can add him to my list.

Don't give up!!!

[digital*ghost]

It does sound like you've got a live one, so to speak. 😞

Unfortunately, not much more to add here - you may have a bit of a frustrating time ahead depending on how it plays out now that the buyer has won the case, but persistence will be the key. It might also be worthwhile reporting the buyer to eBay for suspected fraudulent activity, it might not do anything right now, but at least if the buyer continues with this kind of thing and other sellers take action or report suspect activity, their account will already have been noted. 

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/sell/report_problem.html

[cq_tech]

Thanks for passing on his user ID. What an interesting exercise. Having now studied his feedback at great length, it appears that his INRs are running at around 10 times the national average and I don't care who he is or where he lives, nobody is that unlucky. If it's as obvious to Paypal as it is to me that he's been rorting the system, I have no doubt that they have an open file on him and it's probably only a matter of time before he ultimately caught and prosecuted.

On that basis, I'm hoping now that Paypal will not force you to reimburse this mongrel from your own pocket and refund him by way of a discretionary payment from their own coffers. If it eventuates that this doesn't happen, by all means take the matter further by lodging complaints with the FOS and also the fraud squad in your own state. I wish you the very best of luck with this disgusting situation.

[i-love-my-sheep]

My apologies, I got the website wrong in my previous message. It should be .org not .com.

I looked at the feedback on that site and I have to say, I would fight this until the death. This buyer is clearly a scammer and you shouldn't have to give into a scammer. If the camera doesn't get sent back, I would definitely be reporting him to the police. Not only for fraud, but for theft as well.

Spoiler

Check this out for proof that this is a major scammer   http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=king_kong_shopper&Dirn=Left+by&ref=home

[digital*ghost]

So.... They sell cameras n' stuff, I see. They've probably been pulling this stunt for a fair while, I'd say. 😞

Keep a watch on their listings, OP, just in case your camera makes a miracle reappearance.

[aps1080]

Has anyone had much luck geting the Police involved ?

My understanding is they don't like to do it.

(Unless of course you mention the keywords "Terrorist supporter" ,

guaranteed to ruin anyone's year !)

[digital*ghost]

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@aps1080 wrote:

Has anyone had much luck geting the Police involved ?

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Cases like this need to be reported to the right department (Online Fraud). What will most likely happen, based on what I have observed in previous cases), is that once the report is filed, they will only take action if the reporting party is actually out the money or item. In other words, if they don't lose the funds via PayPal in any way, the police will consider no fraud against the seller to have taken place.

If PayPal refund the buyer's money and do not reimburse the seller, even after a FSO investigation etc, then the seller has to make a demand to the buyer for either the camera or funds. If the buyer doesn't send back the camera or repay the money within a certain amount of time, then they'll take action against the buyer.