Buyer received 'empty box' and filed dispute. Scam?!

[hideldeedum]

Need advice on what to do... I sold a piece of costume jewellery on the US site to a US buyer, after failing to sell it on AU ebay for the price I wanted. The item is a designer piece, so it's got some value and it was sold for a substantial amount. The buyer paid, I had it shipped with tracking and insurance and kept a very close eye on the delivery with the online tracking since it was an international shipment and item had some value, so was definitely paranoid! But to my relief, packaged arrived and delivery was confirmed - my paypal funds finally released for me to spend. Yay?!! WRONG!! Fast forward 2 weeks after receiving the item, the buyer files for non-receipt of goods through PayPal, claiming they received the package but box empty, no contents. After 2 weeks of receiving it and you're telling me now the box is empty?! Oh C'MON. Mind you, I did not get a message from the buyer about the issue straight after they received it. They waited 2 weeks to file this. I have a perfect 100% seller record, ebay member for 10 years, sold over more than 100 items some more than double the value of the item in question and have never had this problem before.. Buyer seems to have a good buying (100+) record with 1 or 2 off ones... I've now misplaced the receipt for insurance but still have tracking details on the web. I am smelling a scam due to the time it took for them to file the claim. What would be my best course of action and do you think PayPal will rule in my favour, given I have excellent selling record and tracking/delivery confirmation? Please let me know opinions on this - I am extremely peee'ddd to the core. :s

[clarry100]

If we order expensive items online like phones we always ask the delivery guy to wait a few minutes while we open the package in his presence until we verify that the contents are intact. That way if it had been stolen in transit we have a good witness who can verify that fact.

[max-power-models]

Pretty sure if you go to the LPO were you posted it with the tracking number they can provide you with all info you need.

I thought I was in for a dispute case similar to yours last month. I will only post international registered mail from now on, as its the only way you can protect your self from PP or Feebay.

Unfortunatley PP have a very biased approach to "resovling" these isssues. As others said get the AFP involved and send PP as much proof as you can. 

You should tell your customer to file a report to the police in the US, as laws governing the US Post come under federal law there.

Personally if I opened the box and found it empty I would have been in touch right away.

Good luck with your dispute. 

[joethenuts]

no offence clarry , but drivers dont have enough time to get the parcel out of the van , thats why you get carded a lot. let alone wasting minutes opening up parcels and checking if everything is there ,and counting to see if the right number of articles are there. could you imagine a driver going to deliver a can of paint ,taking 5 minutes to take off the tape of the lid and then looking for a screwdriver to open the can and then the buyer says [I ordered cream  not green ]  lol

[springyzone]

If I worked for ebay or paypal, I would be very suspicious of anyone who filed a claim about an empty box 2 weeks after signing for it.

No matter what excuse they came up with-being away, busy etc the fact is they did have a window of opportunity & you could assume they probably used it. They signed for the package so you would think they opend it once they got inside. Not as if it was a huge package if it was jewellery.

Even if you were busy, if you found an empty box when you had paid a lot for something, you would be messaging that seller straight off, or any normal person would be.

This is a really difficult area, it is a ploy that never would have entered my head-that someone would send or (from the opposite perspective), claim to have received an empty box. It is actually a bit scary as a seller would think they had themselves covered by having their post tracked or signed for.

I suppose the difficulty as I see it is that even if you have a photo of the weight of the package, when it is something small such as jewellery, a scammer could pop the empty pack onto scales and get it to show the 'right' weight or close enough to it.

Good luck. I would like to hear how you get on.

[joethenuts]

is a catch22 ....in this case the seller will win as it was tracked and delivered ,but maybe the buyer could win with not as discribed .

[you coukd just see an ebay rep going to the home of the buyer and saying tell me madam was the metal metal gold or silver [buyer says not realy]  ebay rep says was there diamonds or rubys in it [buyer says not realy] ebay rep says can you describe the jewerly [buyer says come with me ] and she opens an empty draw in her cabinet , and the ebay rep says theres nothing in the draw [the buyer says thats what I have been trying to tell you [there was nothing in the box]  &%*&*%*

[clarry100]

We have done this on two separate occasions with a DHL delivery.

It was for mobile phones we had ordered online so quite an expensive purchase. They had come in from HK.

The delivery guy was very happy to wait 5-minutes while we opened and verified the package contents.

And said he would have been happy to provide any required witness statements had the package been empty.

I'm not suggesting you do it for inexpensive items.

[joethenuts]

the trouble is an aust post driver does not have 5 minutes   he prob does a drop off every 5 minutes , and what do you clasify as expensive $100...$25....$500..  everybody is different ,and if everybody did the same ,they woulkd only do half there deliveries a day which would bring costs up a lot would take twice as long to deliver , its just not feesable for a driver to wait 5 minutes ,look I dont blame you but 20 a day thats an hour, how do they make that up ,they are under presure most times aust post are trying to cut back on most things except the big boss.

[expanded_perceptions]

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@clarry100 wrote:
It's getting difficult to defend these kind of claims. You almost need a security camera overhead of your packing table recording your every move whilst packing and closing boxes. Also put a couple of strips of that tamper proof security tape on the internal box that must be broken to open it. Must be some way to defend against this.

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Yes sadly it is! I know like me, you already go to great lengths to protect yourself as much as is possible, it really bugs me that it is getting harder and harder to fight the scammers!

Perhaps one way of doing this is for sellers to team up who live locally and witness all packaging and if needed can later sign a stat dec to back up another seller. It would have to fit around each others lifestyles and work better if both sellers have similar sales volumes? Perhaps a whole cooperative of sellers in certain areas so that there are many options? I would be willing to trial this, and am located in the Inner West area of Sydney if anyone wants to do this?

[digital*ghost]

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@joethenuts wrote:

is a catch22 ....in this case the seller will win as it was tracked and delivered ,but maybe the buyer could win with not as discribed .

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A PayPal dispute for the box arriving empty is a Not As Described claim, it can't be an INR because a package was received.

Unfortunately, most of the time it's buyer's word against the seller's, because there is (usually) virtually no physical evidence either one can submit to prove their side. OP, I would suggest maybe getting the jump and putting your word in official (legal) terms, by submitting a statutory declaration to confirm the item was posted to the buyer etc. PayPal can not ignore a legal document when weighting what little evidence there may be. (By which I mean they can, but then I would think you'll be in a better position to contest their decision if they do). 

[clarry100]

I should imagine that as long as there is one other person in the house (or wherever) at the time you are packing who knows/sees that you are packing the items and sending them that the stat dec should stack up.

Even if that other person is your partner.