Legal mess for MS and EBAY they restricted my account copyright violation poppycock

[davo11111]

i recently discovered legitimate german OEM windows 10 keys cheap on german ebay, i did my research

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120703/11345519566/eu-court-says-yes-you-can-resell-your-softwar...

https://www3.wcl.american.edu/cni/0007/26339.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/08/selling_oem_windows_copies_you/

and many other sources 

i purchased sample keys from many german power sellers etc who sell 2500 keys a month all with good feedback, an example is 

lol_service look at this guys feedbackon these keys

purchased some test samples and activated them with MS on the phone, voila legitimate OEM DM channel keys

MS promised i would never have a problem with

so i setup another EBAY account after i promised never to to so again [another story] i placed 10 adverts the maximum and all keys sold in a few days, i sent the codes out good feedback being left from people buying them, then i received this  from ebay

Your listing has been removed: Copyright Violation - Unauthorized Item

Hello davo11111,

After reviewing your eBay account, we've taken the following action:
- Violating listings have been removed. A list of removed items is available further down in this email.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).

Your listing was removed after the rights owner notified us that your item violated their copyright. We urge you to contact the rights owner directly for more information about why they requested the removal of your listing and whether you can relist the item.

For more information about our Vero program go to:
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html

If you have more questions, contact our policy experts:
http://ocsnext.ebay.com.au/ocs/cusr?query=1337&=PTB1187

Please be sure your current and future listings follow these guidelines, keeping in mind that additional violations could result in the suspension of your account.

The rights owner or an agent authorised to act on behalf of the rights owner, Microsoft Corporation, notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of violation, we remove the listing to comply with the law.
 

Dear eBay Seller,If you are selling Microsoft product on eBay, it is your responsibility to ensure that your sales practices do not violate Microsoft?s intellectual property rights or license agreements.Microsoft will request that eBay remove listings which violate these rights and/or license agreements. Included below are some of the most common reasons for removal.Unauthorized distribution of Microsoft SoftwareViolation of license agreement (Recovery discs or loose/stand-alone Certificates of Authenticity (COAs))CounterfeitingHard-disk loadingEnd-user CopyingNot-For-Resale Software (NFR, Promotional)For more information visit the Microsoft Anti-Piracy homepage at http://www.microsoft.com/piracy. If you need additional clarification as to why your listing was removed, please contact softwareprotection@mm-microsoft.com.

We encourage you to contact Microsoft Corporation directly if you have any questions.

You can send an email to:
microsoft@enforcements.markmonitor.com

For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property, or for additional information if you believe that your listing has been removed as a result of an error or misidentification, please visit the following Help page:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

Here are the listings that were removed:
122087584519 - Windows 10 Pro 32/64 Bit Key Multilanguage Genuine Microsoft Activation
122089230357 - Windows 10 Pro With Genuine Key installed on 16 gb USB2 stick posted

they have removed all my listings and it looks like refunded the customers, even though they have activated the keys very infuriating,

so i rang ebay discovered it was microsoft themselves who ordered the takedown, i explained how i purchased these keys from an ebay powerseller in germany with impeccable reputation and feedback and how these were not australian OEM keys but german, and if you followed some of the links above, you will see that microsoft has lost its first sale right in europe which means it cannot dictate how or where the software is resold, people can own and sell licenses, and OEM can be unbundled from its machine and sold seperately, moreover, the courts in europe decided that a person CAN RESALE that key or license even if it has been used, not only for windows 10, but all software and games keys are resellable

after a half hour debate with a nice young ebay rep who understandably was confused i was passed over to ebay vero department 

where i was told by a no nonsense manager that he could remove my account restrictions but i wasnt allowed to list those  products again, or i would forfeit the account, and that i had to contact microsoft enforcement to have this threat waived 

i say i have every right to sell those keys and to the monies owed, now dozens of people are selling the same keys, a few days ago there was none, what do you guys think 

[davo11111]

you could always loan me the legal expenses, im  good for it 🙂

[davo11111]

says the genious with less feedback than me

[davidc4430]

its the old little guy against the big guy

usually the big guy wins because he is BIGGER

sometimes the little guy wins because he's RIGHT

but in this case i think the big guy wins because he knows his LAWS and has the MUSCLE to threaten anyone who dares sell his stuff without permission.

[trailer-board-paradise · Accepted solution]

Even if MS lost the right to how their keys are used in Europe does not mean the same applies in Australia. As you know these are two different markets and this jurisdictions. As to the reasons why the sales were cancelled, Ebay won't try very hard in providing you the precise reasons which makes it difficult for you to dispute.

Your issue is quite interesting however and depending on how it is approached you may or may not have the right to sell those keys. Australia's anti-competitive behaviour laws are very behind and limited compared to Europe. (My European cousin - a lawyer who specialises in anti-competitive behaviour - came to work in Australia and gave some interesting insights).

The seller that sold you the original keys may be allowed to sell those keys in Europe but is he permitted to sell those keys in Australia? You tried to but Ebay stopped you. However what if your account is registered in Europe? Could Microsoft complain then? Or what if both the seller's and buyer's account is registered in Europe but the key is either delivered or used in Australia?

In some industries companies that have never set foot in Australia are required to have a permit to provide their services to people based in Australia even if those services are only provided throught the internet. However this is only required if those companies actively seek customers in Australia and not if those same customers contact the company to use the service (to a certain limit).

All up it's pretty messy and will keep plenty expensive lawyers happily employed for years to come.

[davo11111]

hence my frustration

[*tippy*toes*]

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@davo11111 wrote:

says the genious with less feedback than me

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Last I checked "genius" doesn't have an O in it. As for my feedback, I have a LOT more feedback than you and happen to know the rules for buying and selling on eBay. I choose not to use my selling ID's to post with. I am allowed to do that and it is actually encouraged on the forums.

Maybe if you had chosen to familiarise yourself with the buying and selling policies on eBay Australia you wouldn't be in this mess that you're in. Instead, you thought you knew more than 2 large multinational companies and now you're paying the price.

In over 10 years I've had no policy violations. Probably because I followed the rules. Now who's the genius?

[davo11111]

i agree with all you say, in the case of the keys, they are german keys with worldwide right to install, they are not australian keys, im not aware of any law id be breakling if i sold these keys in australia  its very messy and its all microsofts fault for trying to take peoples right to own and replace it with license to use, and failing to achieve that 

[davewil1964]

Don't you mean 'genious'?

[*tippy*toes*]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

Don't you mean 'genious'?

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Oh yes, you're right, it even says it in the dictionary 😄 😄 😄

[davewil1964]