Seller Has Full Tracking with SOD -- Still Loses INR Case

[clarry100]

I was reading a story over on the Facebook ebay sellers groups where a seller sent out an item with tracking and SOD.

The tracking was associated with the buyers delivery address.

The last ebay estimated delivery date passed but the tracking still showed "in transit". ie no delivery scan event yet.

There is a lodgement scan event inside the seller's stated handling time. Proving postage to the buyer's address.

Buyer opens formal INR case.

Seller launches Aust Post investigation. And uploads their tracking info onto the now open case.

Buyer escalates the case and ebay close in buyers favour and refund from seller funds.

How can this be?

I thought if ebay wished to refund then in this situation it should be their nickel, not the seller's.

I thought the tracking situation should have had this one covered hands down for the seller.

Especially since the Aust Post investigation has not completed yet. Tomorrow apparently.

Am I missing something here?

What would be the point of paying for tracking and/or SOD when you will lose like this anyway?

Might just as well send out everything by untracked large letter, if it will fit.

[collect247]

WOW Clarry thanks so much for this info.

I'm going to look into this in my state and see what I can do with it,as this kind of situation is what 

got me kicked out of ebay.

But if I can find enough evidence to prove what ebay had done was unlawful then look out ebay here I come 

[clarry100]

I would think that each state will have a very similar para, if not identical. You would just need to find it in the equivalent document for your state.

You would probably want to seek a legal opinion on the validity of it before you launched any legal challenge.

But even if you were to quote the applicable document by para number to them they might change their tune just in the knowledge that you are aware of it and may be prepared to use it.

[clarry100]

More on this from the seller....

He lodged a formal appeal against the original ebay decision to refund.

Ebay stood their ground and said that it is 100% the seller's responsibility that Australia Post have lost the package. Even tho he had the full and recommended tracking on it. Just no delivery scan event.

He even mentioned that he knew of the SOGA para that says delivery to the buyer is deemed when lodged with the carrier. But they refused to listen to that either.

They maintain it is now up to the seller to chase Au Post for any recompense. Of course AU Post are unlikely to accept any fault either. May have to go to the Postal Ombudsman in the end.

So I think now off to the FOS for a formal complaint. And possibly Postal Ombudsman.

So it seems that if a package is lost in transit it does not matter if/not you have proper tracking, you will still lose the case. with ebay.

[collect247]

That's what I said in my previous post,ebay will not back down and the seller loses the case,it happened to me so many

times last year and I received to many defects and ebay put the blame on me and decided to suspend me for their own

stupidity.

I forgot to add Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[5kazam]

What a load of carp!  Not you Clarry, just eBay's attitude.

Since when can eBay's 'law' be above Australian Law.

Must admit I'd be hunting high and low to find someone to take on eBay on this one if I was at the rough end of this stick.

[247newdeals]

I actually sort of agree if a parcel goes missing it should be down to the seller to compensate a buyer, I do that here and would do the same on my websites but the problem is eBay do not allow sellers time to correct the problem. 

I recently had a parcel go missing it did not have SOD but AP had just left it outside the house and it went missing (or the postie stole it) AP blankly refused to accept any responsibility I was lucky to have a good buyer who saw it as APs fault and not mine. It took about 3 weeks of both of us calling AP until they eventually agreed the buyers house was not a safe place to just leave a parcel and I will hopefully (a long time from now) receive some compensation from AP but that only happened because I had the buyers backing which if they are refunded you want have.

Not allowing a seller the opportunity to correct a problem is wrong and promotes a platform on Us (sellers) and them (buyers) and them as well (Ebay) rather than a community with sellers. buyers and a platform which is what it should be sadly while eBay have the amount of traffic they do and a lack of competition they can keep bullying sellers.

[davewil1964]

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@247newdeals wrote:

I actually sort of agree if a parcel goes missing it should be down to the seller to compensate a buyer, I do that here and would do the same on my websites but the problem is eBay do not allow sellers time to correct the problem. 

I recently had a parcel go missing it did not have SOD but AP had just left it outside the house and it went missing (or the postie stole it) AP blankly refused to accept any responsibility I was lucky to have a good buyer who saw it as APs fault and not mine. It took about 3 weeks of both of us calling AP until they eventually agreed the buyers house was not a safe place to just leave a parcel and I will hopefully (a long time from now) receive some compensation from AP but that only happened because I had the buyers backing which if they are refunded you want have.

Not allowing a seller the opportunity to correct a problem is wrong and promotes a platform on Us (sellers) and them (buyers) and them as well (Ebay) rather than a community with sellers. buyers and a platform which is what it should be sadly while eBay have the amount of traffic they do and a lack of competition they can keep bullying sellers.

You, I, or any other seller may agree with that sentiment. But Australian law disagrees, and ANY and EVERY eBay Australia policy that conflicts with that law is invalid. ie UNLAWFUL. I certainly wouldn't be looking for a lawyer to take eBay on (at my expense); I'd chuck it squarely on the FOS and/or ACCC.

How about if I sent an item to a buyer as a large (untracked) letter, they claim not received so I send a replacement in a tracked satchel? And they still claim undelivered even when AP claim they delivered it? Should I compensate the buyer when my postage and purchasing costs are as much as the payment, not to mention eBay and Paypal fees. Or should I tell the buyer to take a long walk on a short pier and cop an eBay defect for an unresolved case. Or should I argue that I've sent  the buyer the item TWICE and the issue is with them or the local AP deliverer? And drag the PIO/ACCC into it.

I think it is reasonable to assume that a contracted carrier (in this case AP) have a responsibility to fulfil the contract, and compensate a client where they are unable to. If not for consequential loss, at least for ALL the costs to the seller. In this case the purchase cost of 2 books, two lots of postage, eBay fees (including listing fees), the non-refundable paypal transaction fee.

i look forward to arguing with AP on THAT one. And I will win.

[247newdeals]

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@davewil1964 wrote:

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@247newdeals wrote:

I actually sort of agree if a parcel goes missing it should be down to the seller to compensate a buyer, I do that here and would do the same on my websites but the problem is eBay do not allow sellers time to correct the problem. 

I recently had a parcel go missing it did not have SOD but AP had just left it outside the house and it went missing (or the postie stole it) AP blankly refused to accept any responsibility I was lucky to have a good buyer who saw it as APs fault and not mine. It took about 3 weeks of both of us calling AP until they eventually agreed the buyers house was not a safe place to just leave a parcel and I will hopefully (a long time from now) receive some compensation from AP but that only happened because I had the buyers backing which if they are refunded you want have.

Not allowing a seller the opportunity to correct a problem is wrong and promotes a platform on Us (sellers) and them (buyers) and them as well (Ebay) rather than a community with sellers. buyers and a platform which is what it should be sadly while eBay have the amount of traffic they do and a lack of competition they can keep bullying sellers.

You, I, or any other seller may agree with that sentiment. But Australian law disagrees, and ANY and EVERY eBay Australia policy that conflicts with that law is invalid. ie UNLAWFUL. I certainly wouldn't be looking for a lawyer to take eBay on (at my expense); I'd chuck it squarely on the FOS and/or ACCC.

How about if I sent an item to a buyer as a large (untracked) letter, they claim not received so I send a replacement in a tracked satchel? And they still claim undelivered even when AP claim they delivered it? Should I compensate the buyer when my postage and purchasing costs are as much as the payment, not to mention eBay and Paypal fees. Or should I tell the buyer to take a long walk on a short pier and cop an eBay defect for an unresolved case. Or should I argue that I've sent  the buyer the item TWICE and the issue is with them or the local AP deliverer? And drag the PIO/ACCC into it.

I think it is reasonable to assume that a contracted carrier (in this case AP) have a responsibility to fulfil the contract, and compensate a client where they are unable to. If not for consequential loss, at least for ALL the costs to the seller. In this case the purchase cost of 2 books, two lots of postage, eBay fees (including listing fees), the non-refundable paypal transaction fee.

i look forward to arguing with AP on THAT one. And I will win.

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I am unsure of the law but it should be AP who is responsible but the reality is AP will try everything to not pay and if they do they drag their feet in paying. AP left a parcel outside one of my buyers house about 6 weeks and it went missing. I did not just compensate the buyer (which I felt bad about) I 100% believed the buyer and wanted to just refund them but I needed to make sure they would contact AP to. After about 3 weeks of both me and the buyer contacting them AP agreed it was not a safe place to leave the parcel and are now 3 weeks later investigating the matter and some time in the future I may get compensation for the cost of the item mean while I am about $60 out of pocket.

At the end of the day I do not care what the law says I will do what is right with each and everyone of my customers it is my place to make sure my customer gets the item, in a good time and a good condition. After several problems lately I decided AP are providing a sub standard service and that is my responsibility so I have change how I send parcels I am now using sendle and so far it has been excellent but if things go wrong it will be my responsibility to correct the problem. 

FYI sending a tracked parcel with AP does not make it safe as they just leave outside the house and they do not always leave a card even. I have had buyers contact me about this and I have had 2 parcel just left outside my door, not carded, even though I was home both times. using tracking does not mean a buyer gets it so best you pay the extra $2.95 for SOD.

I 100% agree with you it is 'reasonable to assume that a contracted carrier (in this case AP) have a responsibility to fulfil the contract, and compensate a client where they are unable to'the fact is AP do not and IMHO as a seller it my responsibility to do the right thing by the buyer

[northern_4x4]

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@247newdeals wrote:

i look forward to arguing with AP on THAT one. And I will win.

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I nearly choked on my Wheaties reading that last bit.

[davewil1964]

The items, amongst others, were delivered a few doors down. Information that only came to light after the buyer and I both raised disputes with AP.

I have put out tentative feelers for consequential losses, but that is something they specifically exclude, so I will probably have to pursue the matter of the items not being delivered to the correct address. The buyer is quite happy to support me with a stat dec, so it should be relatively easy to get them to settle rather than have the PIO brought into it.

Good thing I know a thing or two. If I wasn't smart, I might just let it go and wear the losses.