advise please - buyer returned an item not in it's original condition

[kittinkaboodle]

Hi everyone.

I would really appreciate your guidance and advise.

I guess I am no longer so new to selling, but I still feel a bit like a newbie.

I have had my share of buyers trying it on and inventing non existent problems tryng to get a partial refund, but on the whole, my experiences selling have been failry positive - although it's the bad experiences that stick in your head. I have never had a buyer request a return - until now, so this is new for me.

Some backstory.....

I recenlty posted a dress - advertised as pre owned but in immaculate condition  - on 3 Aug. The dress was inside a plastic zip lock bag for protection.

 Buyer recieved 5 Aug. ON 8 Aug she cotacted me, rather aggressviely saying the item was not as described, there was lacework loose which I had failed to mention, and which she had not immediatley noticed. She wanted a refund.

I asked her to return the item to me and assured her if I had made an error I would naturally offer a full refund. The buyer became more and more descriptive about the damage to the lacework. I again asked her to return the dress as she  initally requested.  

The buyer did NOT use the "i wish to return an item" process, she just mailed it back and sent me the tracking number.  

The item arrived yesterday. The lacework has been pulled away from the dress in at least 4 separate  places, in some places dangling very obviously with loose threads hanging.  In short the dress is significantly damaged and not in the condition I sent it.

I contacted ebay  - much to ing and fro ing      , - but I was eventualy told that the buyer has been reported to ebay's safety and trust department

I was told to communicate with the buyer.  Ebay pointed out the currently no action can be taken as no formal case has been opened.

The buyer has contacted me wanting to know if I have looked at the dress yet.  ( it arrived late yesterday afternoon).

I have yet to answer her

That's the scenario.

My question is,  how do you think I should respond?

do I politely tell the seller that the dress was returned not in it's original condition and so I won't offer her a refund?

Do I suggest she open a formal claim?

Do I sublty mention that I have been in contact with ebay customer support?

Obviously I will remain calm, professional and non accusatory.

I realise that if there is a claim,  ebay is likely to find in favour of the buyer. ( the buyer has 100% feedback and a high score)

I realise I may loose my 100% feedback and  my top seller status.  

I realise I COULD just pay the buyer out and lump it and let her get away with it.    

I am not inclined to.   The  dress is SO badly damaged it is not re saleable.  But perhaps I am being emotive and  not logical. (I am just a private seller who sells my excess wardrobe  in sporadic stages)

Any sage advise would be much appreciated

Many thanks

p.s. I have taken photos of the damage

[lane-ends]

Problem is now you have the dress and you have her money, then not refunding or not paying to return it to her is not an option.

Its a **bleep** but we are at the mercy of buyers claiming not as described. Even if there was a claim, there is no way to dispute it, evcen though Ebay ask you to check item is actually faulty.

I think sometimes having change of mind/poor fit returns reduces risks of buyers damaging items just to get a refund.

[kittinkaboodle]

thanks for your reply.

I plan to respond something along these lines..... ( at least this way there is a CHANCE ebay will find in my favour - very slim I know - and if nothing else will perhaps make her think twice about taking such a course of action again. No help to me of course.....   Re the returns for change of mind - I honestly doubt it would make much difference - dishonest people when still lie to try get out of paying postage 2 ways. Here's what I thought....

Dear   .........

The dress did indeed arrive yesterday and I was able to open and inspect it last night.

There is a great deal of lace no longer attached to the dress – particularly at the back, and there are loose threads dangling. This is nothing like the Immaculate condition of the dress, as described in the listing, as captured in the photos, or as it was when posted and protected inside a zip lock bag. I can be sure of this, as I inspect each garment closely when I list it, and in this instance, I inspected the dress a second time, very closely, when you asked specific questions regarding the “infintessimal spots” I described in the listing, prior to bidding.

I have never had a buyer request a return previously and so have been in contact with ebay customer support for guidance.  Their advice indicates that it would be best for you as the buyer to make “an official claim on the item.” (ebay’s words).   As I am sure you are aware, in such instances ebay usually favours the buyer. I imagine that as I have the dress, ebay will issue a full refund including return postage, via the paypal money guarantee. I imagine this is the outcome you desire. Importantly, making a claim, ensures that there is an official record kept by ebay for both our accounts.

Kind regards,

[springyzone]

I understand you may well lose your case with ebay, especially since she has sent the frock back. They will say Oh she has nothing for her money etc etc so we need to refund her.

However, I think you need to decide whether you are going to fight this one or give in.

If you are giving in, just refund, don't get ebay or paypal involved.

I've been in the spot you are in, been annoyed, done a partial refund (where the buyer wanted to keep the item & I knew it had no damage)

If you are going to fight it though, I wouldn't be putting in the last bit of your message where you tell her she will probably win etc.

I think a pivotal issue is what photos do you have of the item close up, before you sold it? What photos were in the listing? Do you have any photos you took at the time but didn't upload, and which show the damaged area in it's pristine condition?

To me, a photo is worth a thousand words. It's not a whole lot of good you saying you checked and didn't see damage etc

But if you can show a shot of the area on the frock from when you were selling it and another of it as it is now & the two photos are very different and show significant recent damage, then it is possible ebay may find in your favour.

Other people may have a better idea of how it might go, but ebay should be aware that clothing is an item that can be worn, damaged etc so you would hope they would look at photos carefully.

If you have no photos... I think you will probably lose.

[everard6920]

As per eBay's policy the item has to be returned in the condition in which it was sent.

If you're going to fight it, then you need to emphasise this to eBay's customer service (and back up your claim that it wasn't, using the photos from the original listing). They might decide to refund the buyer themselves.

Of course, it's your word against hers, because she's saying it arrived like it.

Definitely depends on your photos. If you have one from the listing of the lace clearly attached and undamaged, then you're more likely to win.

[davewil1964]

According to your timeline the buyer received it on Friday and complained on Monday. Just sayin'

[phorum_junkie*]

Your reaction depends on how much time and energy you are prepared to go to in order not to have to refund.

If you feel strongly enough then reply to her saying that it is very obvious that for some reason she has deliberately damaged the dress and so you will not be issuing a refund however you will return the damaged item to her if she sends payment for the postage. Tell her that should she try to claim to ebay or Paypal that the dress was damaged when she received it you will report her to the police for fraud as you are quite prepared to go into court and swear that the dress was not damaged when sent and could not have been damaged in that way during delivery.

Unless she is a professional scammer that may frighten her into not opening a claim.

[kittinkaboodle]

Thanks everyone, appreciated.

I have a number of good quality photos which show the lace attached and undamaged on the listing. 

I was not sure how helpful these would be, because of course there is no proof that these are of the actual dress I sent.

The lace hanging away is harder to capture

I will fight however, knowing that I will probably lose and my top seller status will be diminshed for a while.

When I get the time and energy,  I sell good quality items, well described and offer friendly cheerful service ( which is how I achieved top seller status I guess).  Buyers aren't stupid.I don't think one negative feedback comment will ruin me. And it sticks in my craw that SO much lace has been pulled away in so many places.  I know I'll probably be the loser, but I think it will make the buyer think twice before inflicting the same drama on the next poor sod.   And ebay have supposedly recorded a  complaint against her, so that's something.

Again many thanks

[clarry100]

If she does open a formal case against you and you refund her immediately via the case then there will be no defect issued against you as you have satisfactorily addressed the case by refunding without ebay getting involved. This way it forces her to put the formal case on her account so if she does it again to another poor sod she will have an evident record to ebay.

Since you are very likely to have to refund anyway I would at least try to get her to formalise it.

So if you want to go this way then explain that the way to go now is to open a formal INAD case and you will then refund in full. Tell her this is the ebay way of doing business these days.

I would be cautious against refunding thru paypal outside any case just in case after you do she opens a formal case and tries to get a 2nd refund.

Hope it works out for you.

[digital*ghost]

Personally, I would not be encouraging them to open a dispute (if I was so inclined, however, I'd definitely only mention PayPal, not eBay). If you know you have right on your side, then I would be approaching things with that (confidently) in mind. Meaning, the things to highlight for someone who has willfully (or accidentally) damaged an item is to explain that because it was damaged with improper use etc, you do not have a legal obligation to accept a return and issue a refund. The dress remains the buyer's property so I'd await their instruction on what to do with it (if they want it returned, they need to pay for postage back).

I would also refer them to the options that are at my disposal to pursue the matter if they attempt to enforce an unlawful refund (eg reporting to ACORN etc). 

It's true some things are just easier and quicker to move on from, but that's exactly why buyers like this keep doing it and keep getting away with it.