paypal buyer protection

[dylan11235813]

Yes another thread about paypals fantastic buyer protection. This has probably been said before but i don't care.

Example : Buyer purchases item from ebay and pays by paypal. The seller ships using 'click and send' which comes with a nice tracking number (no requirement for signature on delivery is selected).

The item then goes missing, a claim is lodged by the buyer with paypal and they loose because the seller can prove shipping as required for paypal.

The seller then gets negged and bad feedback on ebay and looses top seller rating and the buyer ends up with no item and no money.

Isn't paypals buyer protection just great.

[campingcentralaustralia]

phorum_junkie*

See again someone who does not know what they are talking about. You have to provide PROOF OF DELIVERY to be elligible for seller protection in PayPal. Therefore if an item gets lost in the post, the buyer gets a refund and the seller is left out of pocket.

So really PayPal are not offering the insurance, the seller is. The seller picks up the bill not PayPal.

[davewil1964]

phorum_junkie*

See again someone who does not know what they are talking about. You have to provide PROOF OF DELIVERY to be elligible for seller protection in PayPal. Therefore if an item gets lost in the post, the buyer gets a refund and the seller is left out of pocket.

So really PayPal are not offering the insurance, the seller is. The seller picks up the bill not PayPal.

So true.

In Australia you only have to provide proof of postage. In fact it seems you don't have to provide proof of the address you sent it to any more, simply proof that you posted it.

If I send something using C&S and the buyer doesn't get it, even if tracking shows the buyer didn't get it, I am still covered by Paypal seller protection. Because I posted using a method that provides seller protection. Period.

[thesoulyearns]

So true.

In Australia you only have to provide proof of postage. In fact it seems you don't have to provide proof of the address you sent it to any more, simply proof that you posted it.

If I send something using C&S and the buyer doesn't get it, even if tracking shows the buyer didn't get it, I am still covered by Paypal seller protection. Because I posted using a method that provides seller protection. Period.

PayPal does also suggest sending it by a method where signature is required. Dave, in the recent past, have you had a case where you've won by just having tracking with no signature?

[davewil1964]

I've never had a case, but C&S is advertised as Paypal compliant and has to be, as you have proof of postage to the buyer's address. The difficulties I've heard about come from trying to claim from AP for a missing satchel that doesn't have signature required.

[viewmont1071]

 I am interested in the legal side of things on a personal level, I would like a definitive answer that doesn't rely on interpretation of certain things one day, and outside of the PayPal and eBay box (if it's possible),

There you go   examples of the wording that these Australian trading companies' legal eagles decided they needed to disclose in their Terms and conditions to fulfill the requirements of the SOGA so that buyers could make an informed decision regarding item ownership and liability.

If you go to the websites you can also see that the companies also offer more secure modes of freight but leave the decision to the customer.

ticketmaster

 Tickets sent by normal mail or express delivery cannot be traced and no responsibility will be taken for tickets sent by this method.

Alternatively your tickets may be collected from the venue on the day of the performance. Please check box office operating hours. In some instances where a venue collection is not available, alternative arrangements may be offered. Please check the purchase page for that event.

sugar free zone

Liability

Whilst we will take due care to adequately pack your goods, we cannot be held responsible for goods damaged or lost due to circumstances that are beyond our control.

This applies to goods in transit or after delivery.

We will gladly follow up on any delivery problems with Australia Post, but by placing an order with Sugar Free Zone Pty Ltd, to the extent permissable by Australian law, the purchaser absolves Sugar Free Zone Pty Ltd and its employees of any responsibility for the goods once they have been delivered in good condition to our local post office.

mothers direct wholly owned  Subsidiary of Australian breastfeeding association

Your order will be dispatched by either Australia Post standard mail or independent courier.

Please choose which method you would like to use at the check out.

We strongly advise that orders over $200 in value are sent by courier, as these orders can be tracked.

Mothers Direct can not be liable for goods lost in transit by Australia Post, as these are not trackable.

New style direct

# Titles to the goods purchased by you remain with us until you have paid for them.  Once the goods are paid for in full, the title will pass to you.

.
# Risk in the goods passes to you when the goods are taken from storage at our warehouse for delivery to you. 

We recommend that you insure the goods until delivery to you.

bluray entertainment (re return of goods)

Where returned goods are lost, or damaged in transit THE BUYER will hold full responsibility and will be required to consult with the 3rd party shipment provider in an effort to obtain compensation in this instance.

Under such circumstances, BLURAY ENTERTAINMENT will not offer any form of refund, exchange or store credit.

This is in the same manner as BLURAY ENTERTAINMENT applies when we send goods to all of our customers in good faith.




danoz direct

Danoz Direct will not be responsible for items that are lost or misdirected

Title to the goods purchased by you remains with us until you have paid for them. Once the goods are paid for in full, the title will pass to you.

[viewmont1071]

I cannot believe some experienced sellers (not you DG) cannot put two and two together and understand why paypals proof for seller protection varies in different countries.

It's not rocket science

Do you think paypal does it because... they are bored maybe?......

or maybe some think it would be just too simple to have universal seller protection policy rules???

They do it because they need to comply with the host countries fair trading, consumer protection and sale of goods laws

The bluff must fool some I guess. it's like the ebay protection policy bluff.

I can prove legally where my items are listed and where they sell by the listing fee and the final value fee that is charged upon that sale because they vary from country site to site.

However If I list my items on ebay.com or ebay.gb then I will be charged that sites listing and final value fees therefore i need to comply with that sites policies

It is impossible for a buyer/ebay/paypal or whoever to prove legally the purchase of an item off me from ebay.com when I am charged ebay.com.au final value fees no matter what international trading agreement I agree to

You just need the gonads to stick up for yourself ( and your countries specific laws)  it's like proving postage with a receipt a postcode, an address and a statutory declaration,

I guess in some cases sellers are laughing all the way to the bank by scaring other sellers into more expensive forms of freight which makes their own products more desirable

Ebay and paypal ... "the obfuscation experts"

[viewmont1071]

http://www.getfrank.com.au/investment/entrepreneur-sme-s/an-overview-of-the-sale-of-goods-act

Be Aware

A seller can contract out of the Sale of Goods Act.

Contracting out of the Sale of Goods Act

To check if the seller has contracted out of the Act, look at:

    * any warranties or guarantees given with the goods
    * your contract
    * any receipts or invoices.

    eg, if there is a statement that says

"No other warranties either express or implied by law are made with respect to these goods"

your rights will be limited to whatever the seller has provided in the contract.

The information below itemizes why sellers need to make the point/time at which the title of ownership transfers clear in your contracts terms and conditions ie. title transfers upon payment and delivery to carrier is deemed delivery to the buyer

http://www.craddock.com.au/Document/Goods+Shipping+and+the+Law.aspx

Risk and ownership

When your goods are accepted by the carrier, you retain the legal ownership until your contract of sale with the buyer transfers ownership (typically upon delivery and finalisation of payment).

However, the carrier has possession of your goods and is responsible for damage to them as determined by your contract of carriage.

It would not be an exaggeration to say that most carriers disclaim as much responsibility as the law permits (which is quite a lot).

As such, insurance is an essential component of any shipping arrangement.

Most carriers will offer some form of insurance, although this will be through a different body and will have its own separate terms and conditions.

Taking the time to understand this is important, especially if you anticipate that you will have multiple shipments with the same company.

There is also no requirement that you use the courier company's recommended insurer - it is totally up to you as to how you would like to insure the goods (provided an insurer agrees to take on the risk).

As insurance contracts are ‘contracts of utmost good faith’, you have an obligation to tell your insurer everything about the shipment (as they can deny coverage if you hid a material fact from them in seeking insurance).

[viewmont1071]

So the terms of the companies mentioned in post 44 are explicit and describe when the title of ownership changes and use the SOGA deemed delivered clause by also describing the risk and offering more secure forms of freight.

Rather than contracting out of the SOGA they have qualified the terms.

Risk and ownership

When your goods are accepted by the carrier, you retain the legal ownership until your contract of sale with the buyer transfers ownership (typically upon delivery and finalisation of payment).

[phorum_junkie*]

See again someone who does not know what they are talking about. You have to provide PROOF OF DELIVERY to be elligible for seller protection in PayPal.

I have had Paypal accounts since before it was even called Paypal and yes I do know what I am talking about in relation to both the UK and the Au Paypal policies which are very different, as I have not had a US account for many years I have not kept up to date with their policy changes..

You can win a Paypal dispute with proof of shipping only if the item is purchased through the Australian site but if a click & send parcel showed as not delivered  I would definitely refund the buyer myself and take it up with AP,  I would not expect Paypal to have to cover AP's stuff up.

AP may say they will not pay compo for C&S parcels which do not have signature required but a complaint to the postal services ombudsman usually has a discretionary payment being made if the occasional poster on the boards where this has happened is to be believed.

[daihatsu3214]

Yes it is buyer beware if the seller uses click and send I got caught they said it was delivered it wasnt I lost out with paypal and Aust Post .Never again I now ask as a buyer if they use click and send ,no way will I buy considering it is only the second item I have not recieved in over 2000 buys I am not a habitual person who makes false claims .

Aust Post is shocking of late .

On the other hand I sent something by reg post wow they lost it .Had no idea where it got to it took 2 months for me to get the money back .I had refunded the buyer after 10 days ..

Both Aust Post and paypal need to do something lost parcels are getting more common .

I suppose everyone will jump up and down reading this I dont care .

I look after my buyers and myself .

But click and send would only cover me as a seller not my buyers and without them I would not be a seller .

So buyers beware of click and send