Buyers with an Intellectual Disability

[izabsmiling]

This is something I have thought of as I have an adult son who has brain damage .I am his carer.

He has asked if I could help him open up an account here to buy things.I have said that between State Trustees and myself we can help him buy things from here when needed (ie;using my account).

He is fortunate to have a carer but I know that many don't have that and there is always the possibility that he could get a friend to help him set up an account without either myself or State Trustees knowledge.

To sellers he just would be a faceless buyer and there could be all sorts of problems for the seller and himself.He may well be awarded the top prize for numptiness .He would not be meaning to be difficult ...he would however need a lot of things explained...though would most likely never tell anyone that himself.

The boards kind of open up my eyes up even more to those possibilities .

Has anyone else faced similar issues or thought about them?

[patchoo78]

I couldn't even add my OH's account to mine.. When you select Add Bank Account, your name is already there and can't be deleted

[*bazinga*bazinga]

If your son can't handle money why would you even consider letting him shop or opening an ebay account.  That's like waving a red rag to a bull and you could be creating stress for yourself.  It also doesn't help that you buy things for him which you may or may not be paid back later.

You would be better to teach him how to budget and save for things he really wants but can't afford at the moment.

[forumfool]

If your son can't handle money why would you even consider letting him shop or opening an ebay account.  That's like waving a red rag to a bull and you could be creating stress for yourself.  It also doesn't help that you buy things for him which you may or may not be paid back later.

You would be better to teach him how to budget and save for things he really wants but can't afford at the moment.

It may not be as cut and dried as that.  With intellectual disability there's a range of issues.  Teaching budgeting/saving is great but may only be possible up to a point.  Buying things is also complex, and can be encouraged but again up to a point - with proper supervision as already discussed.

It may not be the best thing to avoid shopping/ebay altogether   - from my experience as an Occupational Therapist the best course of action (whilst certainly not the easiest) is to use the person's unique capabilities and extend these as much as possible to assist them to lead as normal life as possible, whilst at the same time troubleshooting to protect them against things they may not be able to handle, and also against unscrupulous people who may take advantage. 

Yes, it is an area 'fraught with danger', and yes, can certainly be stressful!  However tt can also be one which has many benefits.   

[***super_nova***]

 I am quite sure that if somebody gets your son to sign "legal" document, there is absolutely nothing legal about the contract, anymore than if somebody got 10 years old to sign something. 

[*crikey*mate*]

ummmmm a 10 year old can enter into and be bound by a contract if it can be proven that the purchase was of a "necessary" nature.

MENTALLY ILL AND DRUNKARDS

Mentally ill and drunkards may be liable under contracts for necessities but other contracts entered into while they are incapacitated are voidable. 

• It is not enough to show that the contract is unfair – the person trying to get the contract set aside must prove they were incapacitated but also that the other person knew of the incapacity (Case 155);


• There does not need to be proof of a total inability to understand what was happening but merely that the person was not capable of forming a rational judgment (Case 156).

[izabsmiling]

The Vcat paperwork states that the judge is satisfied that my son has an Intellectual Disability and that the order will remain in place.I suppose it is the same no matter what the order is in place for ?

http://www.publicadvocate.vic.gov.au/about-us/218/

What is a disability?

The Office of the Public Advocate operates according to the Victorian Guardianship and Administration Act 1986. Under this Act disability means intellectual impairment, mental disorder, brain injury, physical disability or dementia.

There is no universally accepted definition of disability. The United Nations emphasises that disability is a problem created by society and not an attribute of an individual. Many people have illnesses or conditions that affect physical or mental function. However, disability is created when the social and physical environment does not meet the needs of all people.

Definitions of disability and disability types are created to serve many purposes. Government departments create definitions to determine who is eligible for services. Definitions allow researchers to focus on particular disability types. People with similar disabilities often find support in talking to each other.

What is a cognitive disability?

A cognitive disability affects a person’s ability to think. Several types of disability are referred to as cognitive disabilities. These are dementia, intellectual disability and acquired brain injury. Mental illness can also cause cognitive disability. However, mental illness severe enough to substantially impair thinking only affects a small percentage of people.

[davewil1964]

There does not need to be proof of a total inability to understand what was happening but merely that the person was not capable of forming a rational judgment [sic]

VCAT has already determined that in this case, otherwise the Trustee would not be handling the money.

Besides there is a difference between mental illness/drunkenness and intellectual disability.

How old is your reference? The term drunkards would seem to date it.

[izabsmiling]

I just found it the official Order I received .It says 

Guardianship and Administration Act 1986 Section 61A reassessment of administration  order:

Having reassessed the administration order the Tribunal makes the following order:

The Tribunal is satisfied that the represented person has a disability; is unable by reason of that disability to make reasonable judgments about their estate;and needs an administrator

The Tribunal Orders that:

(name and address of Administrator ) be appointed administrator of the estate of the represented person with all powers and duties conferred by Part 5 Divisions 3 and 3A of the Guardianship and Administration Act 1986.

etc etc etc

The paperwork I received on the day stated Intellectual Disability .He is registered with disability services as having ABI.

[*crikey*mate*]

It was the legal current legal position and wording from July 2011.

*shrugs*

Within the chapter "Intention to be Legally Bound" in "Carter's Guide to Australian Contract Law (2011)" and all other Contract Law books I have, mental illness and drunkards are dealt with in unision on a parallell tangent to minors.

[izabsmiling]

ummmmm a 10 year old can enter into and be bound by a contract if it can be proven that the purchase was of a "necessary" nature.

MENTALLY ILL AND DRUNKARDS

Mentally ill and drunkards may be liable under contracts for necessities but other contracts entered into while they are incapacitated are voidable. 

• It is not enough to show that the contract is unfair – the person trying to get the contract set aside must prove they were incapacitated but also that the other person knew of the incapacity (Case 155);


• There does not need to be proof of a total inability to understand what was happening but merely that the person was not capable of forming a rational judgment (Case 156).

I don't believe that this is relevant.

I suppose anyone with an intellectual disability may also have some issues with alcohol later on in their lives just like anyone else or perhaps more so?

They may also exhibit symptoms of mental illness and or be diagnosed with mental illness just as anyone else may be.

I suppose anyone who didn't know their full history may just see drinking  as the only problem ?

If they didn't know the full history of someone with an intellectual disability and were to state that their was nothing wrong with that person that they were 'just' a drunk...they would not be correct would they ? If that was spread and it was made out that a person who states that their son has a disability is a liar.That could be quite damaging and defamatory.If people treated them based on that assumption..that would be very cruel and unjust.

I hope that your family is well.I am aware that you know a bit about childhood seizures yourself .Unfortunately You, Bump and I have some thing in common there.

anyway here is some info that is more relevant than that of the drunkard/mental illness

What is an administration order?
If you are a person:

over the age of 18 years;

with a disability (including an intellectual impairment, brain injury, mental disorder, physical
disability or dementia);

and

that disability prevents you from making reasonable judgements in relation to legal and financial

matters;

the Guardianship List of the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (the Tribunal) can make an
administration order appointing an administrator to make those decisions for you. An administration
order is a legal document. An administrator can be appointed to make all decisions in relation to your
legal and financial affairs, or only decisions about a limited range of things. If a limited administrator is
appointed, the administration order will set out the sorts of decisions that the administrator can make.
An administrator may also be appointed temporarily.

Can administrators be appointed for adults who do not have disabilities?

No. However, if you cannot look after your own financial affairs for practical reasons (for example,
you are going overseas and want someone to pay your bills), you can appoint an attorney under a
power of attorney document.

Do I lose any rights if I become subject to an administration order?
Yes. Depending on the type of order made, there may be some things concerning your money that
you cannot do. When an administration order is made, you become known as a represented person.
Depending on what the administration order says, you may not be able to enter contracts without an
order from the Tribunal or the written permission of your administrator. If you do try to enter a
contract without this permission, the contract may be of no effect. If you are worried about a contract
you should talk to your administrator or call Villamanta. If you think your administrator is unfairly not
letting you buy goods or otherwise spend your money, you should try to discuss this with them. If this
does not work, you should ask a friend, advocate or lawyer to help. If you are still unhappy about
what is happening, you may need to get the Tribunal to reassess the order.

http://www.villamanta.org.au/Main.asp?_=Administration