How do you get ebay to take action in relation to misuse of bid retractions

[gutterpunkz05]

How do you get ebay to take action against members misusing bid retractions to corrupt the bidding process.  IE;  Make winning

bid to  ascertain underbidders maximum, then retract bid and place bid equal to underbidders maximum, therefore leaving

the underbidder as the highest bidder exposed to their maximum bid.   I have complained to ebay by phone and email about

one particular bidder who exposed my maximum bid on six seperate items with one seller on 26/1/2014, this bidder has over

280 retracted bids in the last six months.  Another two bidders on items from the same seller have also adopted this practice

on items I have bid on, one of these sellers only has a feedback of 17 with 2 bid retractions and a 100% trading record with

this one seller.  To date there is no indication that ebay intends to act on my complaints as all items remained active with no

bid cancellations.  As far as I am aware this practice is against ebay rules and possibly illegal as is shill bidding.

Does this seem suspect or have I just been extremely unlucky to experience this on such a scale.  I am considering refusing

to pay for items until I receive some feedback from ebay relating to my complaints, but when I complained by phone they

refused to give me a report or case number and stated I would not be advised of the results of any ebay investigation.

HELP.... any advise would be much appreciated

[*crikey*mate*]

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@gutterpunkz05 wrote:

Dear  Crikey and others  thanks for the replies,  may I make it absolutely clear, this is not about the money, as when I set a maximum price for an item I am well and truly prepared to pay whatever I set,  Also it is not about being legitimately outbid as I lose more than I win as like myself many others are prepared to part with an arm and a leg  for some of the items I chase.  

Now  Crikey ,  I supplied ebay via email with the details of every bid, to the second and included full details down to the cent.

One bidder  -  6 items - in less than two hours  -   on every occassion  placed a higher bid than my maximum, then retracted the bid

and  place a new bid  either  equal to my maximum  to the cent, or outbid me by 1 cent.   Ebay would not have had to lift a

finger to reach the same conclusion as I did  ( something stinks to high heaven)  or else this person has an IQ of less than

20.  Then to find the exact same thing occurring with two other bidders with the same seller  has rung enough alarm bells with

me , that I will not be  bidding on any items listed by that particular seller in the future.  Yes people have the right to genuinely

retract a bid,  however they do not have the right to retract a bid for the purpose of manipulating or corrupting the bidding

process..

One thing is becoming painfully obvious here though and that is that no matter how intelligent we think we are and how much

law one wants to spruik , no one can answer the original question of how to get ebay to act, so perhaps the chap with the IQ of less than 20 is smarter than us all put together

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I did answer that.

eBay needs to get a legal ruling. Just as you or I cannot go around accusing someone of something, neither can eBay. Not even the police can do that (or other law enforcers). They collect as much evidence as possible, and then allege a "crime" has been committed, but it is through the legal processes that an actual decision/ruling is handed down.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@gutterpunkz05 wrote:

By the way Crikey, I dont make complaints or allegations on a whim,   Have only ever complained about one ebay seller before,

I initially came across a bloke trying to sell some very dodgy machinery, how did I know it was dodgy well maybe the fact that

it was advertised elsewhere and situated about 5000km from where Mr ebay seller claimed it was.  I didnt complain at that time

but did shortly after when he was trying to sell $500,000 of non existant real estate.  Guess what he was banned and the item

removed within one hour.  He rebirthed himself about six months later trying to flog of some of the original shonky machinery

one email  and he was gone again.   But now it seems  ebay could not give a toss.

Could you imagine the outcry there would have been if that real estate was sold to a member with an IQ of less than 20

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I didn't say or mean to imply that you were, and for what it's worth, it looks completely sus to me too. BUT, as I am not a court of law, I cannot make accusations, nor take actions based on "what I think, or what I know".

as for real estate being sold to someone with an IQ less than 20, I am pretty sure that the element of Capacity would copme into effect there and it would not be a legally binding contract.

[padi*0409]

WOW Crikey, you've been busy mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(slinks off to quiet/safe house.................................)

I still reckon eBay should be taking bid retractions more seriously, when it looks as though there is either shill bidding happening, or the use of retractions to find another bidder's max bid...............Hmmmmm.

(scratches head in confusion............again..............)

[gutterpunkz05]

Agree that had I publicly identified the  bidder, I may have a slight problem, but I have not identified anyone and have only stated

absolute facts, so I think the risk is significantly diminished.

As a great man (I think it was Me) once said  I know enough law to get into trouble, but I have enough money and sense to

hire a lawyer to get Me out.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@padi.0409.0409 wrote:

WOW Crikey, you've been busy mate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(slinks off to quiet/safe house.................................)

I still reckon eBay should be taking bid retractions more seriously, when it looks as though there is either shill bidding happening, or the use of retractions to find another bidder's max bid...............Hmmmmm.

(scratches head in confusion............again..............)

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I agree whole heartedly with you on that.

They say they do their best to make it a safe and fair trading place. But I guess, they have to choose their battles, cos legal ones are costly.

Their purpose is to protect their "brand", and to do that, they would apply an economic concept known as Opportunity Cost. In short, they weigh up what they have to give up to get what they want. So they must weigh decisions up and go "well, yeah, it's gonna **bleep** off a few, maybe even drive them away, but at the end of the day, the incidence doesn't affect our bottom line brand enough to warrent pursuing too harshly.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@gutterpunkz05 wrote:

Agree that had I publicly identified the  bidder, I may have a slight problem, but I have not identified anyone and have only stated

absolute facts, so I think the risk is significantly diminished.

As a great man (I think it was Me) once said  I know enough law to get into trouble, but I have enough money and sense to

hire a lawyer to get Me out.

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it's ok for you to make these allegations to eBay, but my point is, for them toi act, they can't say "Johnny, we have decided you're a shonkster, so we're gonna ban you", they have to have a legal ruling. For most (not all) parts of law, the presumption of innocent until proven guilty still exists in Australia. But it is up to the legal institutions to make those decisions.

and as for hiring a lawyer LOL - there was so much about the law that I didn't know, or understand how or why it worked the way it did, that I went to law school.

[gutterpunkz05]

I  have requested an exemption from their bid retraction rules, to enable me to utilise the same strategy without fear of retribution.

Now lets see where the dandruff falls/

[kobies_costume_jewelry]

My head hurt's

[digital*ghost]

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@crikey*mate wrote:

eBay needs to get a legal ruling. Just as you or I cannot go around accusing someone of something, neither can eBay. 

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eBay do just that all the time, though, where it concerns their own policies and not the law.

Prime example is the "off eBay" sales thing - it's eBay policy that you can't offer to sell something to someone off eBay, but it's not against the law to do so (hence why I'm using it as a comparison to the bid retraction). Yet, if eBay even suspect via some innoccuous wording in a listing that a seller is attempting to do so, the listing is pulled and a policy violation is issued without question and which is impossible to appeal against, no matter how much evidence you can supply that eBay got it wrong. Those policy violations stand for months, and can/do result in account sanctions.

So why only the follow-through against sellers they suspect might cost them a few dollars, but no follow through against buyers who are unquestioningly violating their policies and turning other buyers away from the site, potentially costing them a lot more than a few dollars?

Rhetorical question, BTW, just wanted to highlight the double-standard eBay has.

[padi*0409]

Double standards indeed Digi..................................

As I'm sure most if not all would agree.