Item received broken

I bought an item from a seller. It is actually the 2nd one I have purchased from them, the 1st one arrived fine. The 2nd one arrived shattered and broken. I emailed the seller and asked what I am to do and this was their reply:

 

We are so sorry to hear thatyour item arrived broken .. Unfortunately once the parcels leave our hands we have no control over what happens to them .. We do state in our listing that we will not be responible for lost or broken items ..

 

Does that mean I have no recourse?

 

Thank you

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Item received broken

As an advocate seeking to protect the interests of others I am surprised you are not more mindful in ensuring you do not deter others from pursuing their best interests or in the first instance seeking to negotiate an outcome with their seller.

 

The way many of your posts come across may stop a buyer from bothering to open an eBay or Paypal dispute.

 

And it could be that by opening a dispute the buyer and seller could come to agreement regarding the matter.

 

 

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Item received broken


 

 As for Australian Consumer Law, it only applies to sales where the buyer falls within the meaning of consumer for the purposes of that Act, which effectively excludes goods bought at action, second hand goods and goods purchased from private individuals.  So are you saying that PayPal Buyer Protection extends to item damaged in transit, but only where the damaged goods are new and been purchased from a seller who is operating a business.

 



Australian Consumer Law guarantee covers second hand goods sold by Australian businesses.

 

Australian Consumer Law guarantee covers goods purchased by eBay auction sold by Australian businesses as eBay does not act as an agent for sellers.

 

 

Please see ACCC publication - a guide for business & legal practitioners  - I suggest you peruse it carefully before posting anymore misleading advice.

 

http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/the_acl/downloads/consumer_guarantees_guide.pdf

 

 

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@tall_bearded01 wrote:

‘IF a seller didn't pack delicate items adequately and they got damaged in the post, why shouldn't the seller be the one that refunds the buyer? Are you saying TB, the seller can appeal the PayPal decision to refund the buyer and win even if they didn't take enough care to package the goods properly?”

 

I have already answered the question. 

 

If you put in a PayPal claim and PayPal find for the buyer, and the PayPal decision is appealed PayPal (and by inference) the buyer will lose.  They will lose not because the buyer doesn’t have a valid claim against the seller, but because this is a negligence claim, and PayPal Buyer Protection doesn’t extend to the determination of negligence claims.  That is PayPal buyer protection is limited to tow specific types of claims; where the item has not been received; and where  the item is not as described, and an item damaged whilst at the buyers risk don’t fall with the definition of either for the purposes of the legislation.

 

Finally as I said previously, that doesn’t men they have no rights, if the item was damaged on account of seller negligence (which is exactly what we are dealing with here) it simply means they have to pursue those rights elsewhere, namely a negligenc claim in the small claims' court.


That is not how it is working now though  Buyers are getting refunds from Paypal or MBG.

 

It is confusing for buyers when they come here to ask what to do when an item not received, snad, arrived broken, and instead of giving them appropriate steps to take... you give them a barrage of text... that doesn't help them at all.

Especially when you go on about seller this seller that when it is a buyer requesting help! They don't need to know that stuff to open a dispute. Example post 2 - how does that help the OP??

 

After first trying to sort out their problem with the seller and if  this doesn't give them any satsifaction they have the option of opening a Paypal dispute or an eBay MBG.

 

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Not going to discuss with you TB. 

 

IMO all of your points lose credibility as an "advocate" as your advice on basic stuff is simply very wrong and misleading to those seeking assistance.

 

 

 

From publication at link to ACCC publication above.

 

 

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Item received broken

TB - namely a negligence claim in the small claims' court.

 

In NSW we have the Consumer, Tenancy & Trader Tribunal. They are busy enough as it is without hundreds of eBay buyers lodging low value claims. Takes a few months to get a case heard. Conciliation is first compulsory requirement. how is that going to work if buyer is in NSW and seller is in WA? Seller has to fly to NSW twice (once for conciliation and second time for hearing) at their own expense, over a, for example, $50 item? 

 

eBay buyers have other avenues to assist them  - eBay MBG and Paypal claims. No cost to the buyer to lodge a claim. Other more experience posters on here can & do, give them advice, depending on their issue which one of these avenues might be the best one to open a claim in.

 

It cost around $35 to lodge a claim at the CTTT (NSW). Are buyers going to be doing that for $10, $20, $30 items?  Plus potential time off work, travel to a hearing etc.

 

You really are doing buyers posting here asking for help with problem transactions, a disservice. When it is quite simple for them when pointed in the right direction to lodge a claim/dispute via eBay or Paypal.. not saying they will win, but it is the right step to start with.

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Agree with Am.

 

Save, I think disservice is an understatement.

 

 

I also note that it is the best interests of an individual that may be pondering taking legal action, to firstly attempt to resolve their issue through the available dispute processes which in this case are the MBG or paypal dispute. 

 

 

 

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As an advocate I have a responsibility to ensure that the client – be they buyer or seller - are PROPERLY advised as to their respective rights and responsibilities.

 

You may have missed the post where I stated that I sell china and if it arrives broken – 5 claims in ten years - I ask the buyer to put in a claim with Australia Post, and is they do, and when they assigned any right to compensation arising out of the claim to me, I reimburse the buyer in full and pursue the claim (with AP); and I have yet to have a claim refused – well that not quite correct – they said no to one and but changed their mind when I got the ombudsman involved.  I have in the past recommended this course of action to other sellers and will continue to do so.  But I do this not because I’m legally obliged to.  I do it because it no skin of my nose and keeps the customer happy.

 

But what happens when the buyer is confronted with a seller who says “it’s your problem not mine”.  Your response appears to be to attempt to manipulate eBay Guarantee and PayPal Buyer Protection policy to provide an outcome it is not designed to provide, in the hope that, they, PayPal, in the initial stages will find for the buyer, and then,  if the seller appeals and the decision is overturned, they, the buyer, can always rely on PayPal making a discretionary payment.  The problem is, what happens when they don’t.

 

But there is an alternative.  Instead of attempting to manipulate the policy, do what the Act tells you do.  Give clear instructions as to how it is to be packed.  Then if the seller ignores the instructions given, the buyer has a sound claim for negligence which they you can pursue in the small claims court.  In the alternative, if the seller packs it properly and the sell again says your problem not mine, then the buyer still had a valid claim against Australia Post, and if they (AP) say no, a valid reason to lodge a dispute with Postal  Ombudsman,  who will take great delight in telling Aust Post where they can stick their decision.

 

 

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OPs are not "clients"

 

They are members of the eBay community.

 

Please stop attaching meaning to my posts that does not exist.  IMO it is mischievous and misleading.

 

I post exactly what I mean. 

 

My last advice to you TB is to carefully read the publication I provided a link to and if possible refrain from reinterpreting / misinterpreting the very clear matters outlined in it.

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So you accept that the Australian Consumer Law only applies to goods sold by “Australian businesses.”

 

As for second hand goods there are actual 3 Acts and a fist full of regulations apply, The Sales of Goods Act, the Second Hand Dealers and Pawn Brokers Act, with the involvement of the consumer law being limited to replicating certain provisions of the first to  Acts so that there is constancy between the obligation imposed on the seller irrespective of whether the Australian business selling the goods is a sole trader (the bulk of the business which sell on eBay) or incorporated entity (a company).  Now if you are really interested in why you need three Acts to do the same thing, I would recommend the latest edition of Australian Mercantile Law.

 

As for auctions, I didn’t say eBay auction I said auctions, and I fully understand the distinct between the two.  That is, an eBay auction is not auction for the purposes of either the core legislation – The Sales of Goods Act

 

But again you missed the main point of my post.  You cited the Australian Consumer Law as supporting your argument that items damaged in transit fall within the definitions of not as described.  My point was, as the application of Australian Consume Law is limited to sales by Australian Business (your words), then only those goods sold by Australian Business fall with the meaning of Item Not as described, for the purposes of PayPal Buyer Protection where the  goods are damaged in transit.  That is by your interpretation, claim made non Australian business sellers are excluded, and are claims where the goods are sold by private individual.

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I sell both new and second hand items - clothing and other items on other IDs.

 

I am more than aware of the legislation that covers my activities and the ACL applies to them, and those consumer protections should serve to give my buyers confidence that their purchases from any of my IDs OR other Australian businesses are covered by these consumer guarantees.

 

Your efforts on these boards serve to confuse buyers and undermine sellers such as myself.

 

Cease.

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