on โ13-05-2013 03:37 PM
on โ14-05-2013 02:26 PM
The effects of Communism and oppression of people is one example, as an atheistic political ideology. And there's something to be said for the Nazi ideology with it's 30 point program for the national Reich Church which basically prohibited any form of dissemination of the bible and any books of religious nature.
Atheism and antitheism are two completely different things. Atheism is simply non-belief, it does not inherently contain opposition to belief of any kind, and it is a logical fallacy to suggest atheists could have a belief system that results in a regime of opposition, oppression of religion etc.
on โ14-05-2013 02:39 PM
Atheism and antitheism are two completely different things. Atheism is simply non-belief, it does not inherently contain opposition to belief of any kind, and it is a logical fallacy to suggest atheists could have a belief system that results in a regime of opposition, oppression of religion etc.
I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Firstly, I'm not convinced about the semantics, but more than that, Atheism as the belief that there is no God also has repercussions for basic beliefs about the inherent dignity/worth of a person. This has direct influence on what is believe to be licit to do with and to people. Simply put, the atheism of Marx (and antitheism of Communism which I'm not convinced can be entirely separated from atheism in my personal opnion!) had a massive influence on the atrocities perpetuated by Communist regime, atrocities that continue today.
I do however, understand your points about 'religious wars' sadly agreeing that religious hypocrisy has had terrible effects. However I would certainly never put atheism on a pedastal of 'peace-mongering'!
on โ14-05-2013 02:58 PM
I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Firstly, I'm not convinced about the semantics, but more than that, Atheism as the belief that there is no God also has repercussions for basic beliefs about the inherent dignity/worth of a person. This has direct influence on what is believe to be licit to do with and to people. Simply put, the atheism of Marx (and antitheism of Communism which I'm not convinced can be entirely separated from atheism in my personal opnion!) had a massive influence on the atrocities perpetuated by Communist regime, atrocities that continue today.
Doesn't then make it about how people uphold and act upon their beliefs, rather than the belief (or lack thereof) itself? I understand that collectively, any '-ism' has the potential to influence society and behaviour en masse, but atheism doesn't really have a movement for people to follow, there are no doctrines, there's no propaganda, there's not even anything that particularly encourages others to not believe - to me, at least, it seems very much an individual thing and those individuals rarely - if ever - actively seek to change other people's belief system - they will defend and / or explain why they don't believe, and it's true that some people will look down on others for what they believe, but that's part of the person's attitude to their fellow human beings rather than a direct result of not believing in the same thing. If you look at organised religion, though, damning those who do not believe is part of the movement, same too for antitheism - damning those who do believe, which is the key difference to me.
Atheism and antitheism are not polar opposites, that is true, and as non belief in any particular religion is likely at the core of antitheist movements, I would not suggest that they can be completely separated, but IMO semantics in this instance are important, because one can absolutely be atheist without being antitheist, and it's antitheism that seeks to oppose.
on โ14-05-2013 03:05 PM
Any person who claims their rights are being damaged because they must listen to the free speech of others should be ashamed of themselves!
Free speech works both ways. A person has the right to preach all they want, and a listener has the right to tell them they don't want to hear it. How is that so hard to understand? ๐
on โ14-05-2013 03:06 PM
if you read through the posts wallaby [at least the ones that are left] one group stands out as being very intolerant. quite interesting, I think.
on โ14-05-2013 03:20 PM
silly_wallaby
You have quite missed the point
"Free speech works both ways. A person has the right to preach all they want, and a listener has the right to tell them they don't want to hear it. How is that so hard to understand? :/"
Yes people have the right to "tell people they do not want to hear it" No one has disputed that. However hearing it does not infringe on their rights! Perhaps you need to read the posts more carefully before replying!
on โ14-05-2013 04:34 PM
Christians have despite what people like yourself like to ignorantly claim have killed less than 0.05% of people in war or otherwise than others FACT!
So the next one to work out would be the % of people at the time.
After all most religious wars where fought in the earlier times of mankind so considering that is 0.5 % of all humankind that figure seems very high as the population back then was far less,?:|
World war two was sixty million which was 2.5 % of the world population.
The crusades over a thousand years ago where responsible for 1.5 million.
Earlier then that who knows,;-)
So if it was termed as percentage of people at the time,(I'd say the Christians win in a landslide),:O
on โ14-05-2013 05:08 PM
"CRICKEY" so many posts are disappearing, looks like the atheists will win by default.
interesting that those who seem to "proclaim freedom of speech" keep getting others "freedom of speech" deleted. truly interesting isn't it.
on โ14-05-2013 05:17 PM
If a god botherer wants to pay AP to deliver religious material to my letter box addressed "to the householder" then so be it but if I buy an item through ebay (and I am paying the postage) then it is an abuse of my contact details to include religious leaflets.
on โ14-05-2013 05:20 PM
"CRICKEY" so many posts are disappearing, looks like the atheists will win by default.
interesting that those who seem to "proclaim freedom of speech" keep getting others "freedom of speech" deleted. truly interesting isn't it.
mr glow if you feel your posts have been unfairly removed you can appeal them by emailing aumoderation@ebay.com and explain why you think your posts have met all the guidelines and therefore should not be removed.