Seller advertising items as NOS when they are actually used - eBay not concerned

[rcs_405]

I've reported items from this seller twice. The first time was after I nearly hit the buy button before deciding to read the listing again, and noticing the Item Specifics/Condition showed the item to actually be used and not new old stock. My report gained a response from eBay saying "we'll take it from here", but the listing is currently still active.

The second report was just now, when a separate item appeared in my watchlist under "Similar Sponsored Items". I reported the item using the Help icon in the bottom corner of the screen. I got a response saying the listing was reviewed by AI and not found to violate eBay's policies.

So a seller is sponsoring misleading items to appear in my feed, and eBay is allowing it. How is this OK?

[twyngwyn]

what is the item/s numbers?

[sugar249]

It's not ok,  but there are sellers who do it,  even sending out smelly stained items, and than they get upset if they get a negative.

Thats why you need to read the ads carefully, which I am glad you do.

[rcs_405]

Most recent item is this: 404008407714. These are parts used for restoring vintage wristwatches.

The seller has over 400 listings with NOS in the heading, with many being incorrect. I wondered if the seller didn't understand what NOS actually meant, so I first sent them a polite message explaining that they were using it incorrectly. I got no reply and the listings didn't change. A second message to the seller also got not reply so I had to presume the term was being used deliberately and that was when I tried reporting the seller to eBay.

I realise that that listings can be misleading and I usually try to read between the lines, but it was being force-fed these listings via sponsored content that really tipped me over.

[sugar249]

looked at the item mentioned.

Is it really used, or have they just used used,  because it is New Old stock,  but as they cant be sure of the condition as it may have being sitting around for 100 years (thats OTT).

If I was selling really old stock even if it was New,  I think i would also list it as used to cover my self from people who get pedantic. 

At the end of the day, move on, 

[springyzone]

If you're unsure about an item, you can always ask a seller about specifics before you buy.

As in, is it definitely unused etc

I think the seller would be well aware of the meaning of NOS because not all his items have that. I saw at least one that is listed outright as new.

The other things, listed as NOS, he mentions in his ad that they may still require maintenance & there is no warranty. I guess if you're looking at stock that is possibly decades old, he is better to list as pre owned as the word 'new' sets up certain expectations in buyers. The seller seems to be sourcing supplies from different places so I guess some could well be 'pre owned' but still unused.

You ask about ebay 'allowing' it. Why would they stop it? This is not an out and out scammer in their eyes, it isn't someone listing illegal goods, it is a business seller who has been selling steadily over the last 3 years, with reasonably positive feedback. The seller doesn't seem to commit the major ebay sins-not sending any item at all or continually sending items late or cancelling sales.

In ebay's eyes, you the buyer are covered if a sale goes south, you can make a claim for a faulty item or one not as described.

So as long as most customers seem happy enough and as long as that seller is still making sales and paying commission, ebay will have no problem with it.

They aren't about to send people to march into the seller's warehouse or whatever to check out the items.

In my opinion, there are plenty of much worse sellers on ebay, people who claim items have a warranty and so on. Ebay does nothing much about them.

Ebay isn't a bad place to buy but yes, you definitely need to read ads carefully, ask questions, look at feedback etc before you make a decision on whether to buy or not. There are risks.

[rcs_405]

> Is it really used, or have they just used used, because it is New Old stock, but as they cant be sure of the condition as it may have being sitting around for 100 years (thats OTT).

I don't believe the seller would miss the opportunity to label a true NOS part as new, particularly for watchmaking parts. Perhaps they might be cautious if they were selling ordinary items, but in watchmaking NOS is a widely understood term, meaning parts that have been sitting on the shelf never used, often for decades. They will usually need cleaning or tidying up but they are still new. Many other sellers of watch parts on eBay have no problem using this term correctly. A used item cannot be considered New Old Stock. Also even if the parts had been owned by someone else previously, why would the seller bother using "pre-owned" to describe parts that are effectively still new and unused?

To me the use of NOS is a clear tactic to encourage clicks on the seller's listings and take attention away from other sellers with similar non-NOS listings. If I was looking for a part and had a choice between two listings that were used or NOS, I would go for NOS. But now the onus is on me to have to ask if the parts are "truly" NOS - seems silly.

Also keep in mind this doesn't affect only a few of the seller's listings, but literally hundreds of listings. Imagine having to get clarification on every single part.

> You ask about ebay 'allowing' it. Why would they stop it? This is not an out and out scammer in their eyes, it isn't someone listing illegal goods, it is a business seller who has been selling steadily over the last 3 years, with reasonably positive feedback. The seller doesn't seem to commit the major ebay sins-not sending any item at all or continually sending items late or cancelling sales.

The seller is violating eBay's own "Item Description Policy", mainly: "The Item Condition selected must match the item and should be consistent across all areas of the listing (title, description and item specifics)". This makes it clear that NOS can't be in the title and also "used" or "pre-owned" as the item condition. Looking at the few instances of negative feedback the seller has received, some do suggest misunderstandings of the condition of the parts that had been bought. I find it hard to believe that eBay would turn a blind eye to these misleading listings (hundreds of them) because the seller isn't committing a serious enough offense. Why bother having the policy at all if eBay won't uphold it?

But you're right - I can't expect eBay to march into the seller's warehouse and sort out their true NOS parts from the wrongly listed ones. I will "move on" as has been suggested, and decide if I want to bother forensically examining and questioning the details of every listing from now on.

[springyzone]

I think there are a lot of sellers on ebay who sail very close to the wind when it comes to titles and descriptions.

The Chinese are probably the worst offenders as some of them pinch photos off other websites and use them in their ads to sell copies. Particularly rampant in clothes etc

There are others that blithely say there is a 2 or 3 year warranty on their items, but there almost never is, not if a buyer actually tries to make a claim.

Plus there are quite a few sellers who claim items to be in Australia when they aren't. Ebay is fine with it all.

With your specific problem, I think the main thing we would need to know though, the crux of the matter, is are the items actually old stock that is unused? NOS

In my eyes (and yours too, I think) NOS has to mean unused. It is not an accurate term to describe used items in excellent condition.

To me, an item could be pre owned and still unused. 

If the items are genuinely unused (NOS), then having pre owned in the listing can be confusing but not really a problem in that the item really is unused. If, on the other hand, an item is listed as NOS and you buy it and it has obviously been used, then that is a problem, it is not as described.

I understand though that it is frustrating for you and annoying too. You're after a crystal clear buying experience and that is fair enough, so yes, your best bet is to move on to a different seller.

I doubt ebay will do anything, unfortunately you do need to forensically examine quite a few of the ebay ads.

[rcs_405]

Thanks for your understanding. Yes there's a chance some of the seller's listings may genuinely be NOS, but some jump out as definitely not being NOS - clear signs are excessive corrosion (common in used vintage watches), damaged screw heads (which could only happen during servicing of a watch), deep scratches, etc. 

Anyway going forward I'll just avoid, and be aware that eBay ad descriptions can't always be trusted. I hope there won't be too many other buyers who are misled by this seller's ads. Thanks for the discussion and advice.

[davewil1964]

Are you aware of eBay board rules?

Apparently not, even though you ticked the box to say you had read and understood them.

Naming members is a no-no. And those of us not looking to buy used watch parts don't care.