on 16-10-2021 03:25 PM
As a long time buyer have just experienced a novel and very frustrating transaction. Basically I purchased and paid for an item for nearly $400 and for which delivery was included. A day ago the seller contacted me to say their freight costs had gone up and requested I pay the additional amount in question($45). Having thought about it I messaged them and politely suggested that cost should not be on me and that I wished them to honour their bargain. Shortly afterwards they replied that “it was no longer financially viable” for them to complete the transaction and they had “ cancelled” the order and were refunding the price. To my frustration eBay had accepted their purported cancellation and the item was now listed as cancelled so any usual remedy I had for eBay to step in was thwarted. Nor it seems can I now leave negative feedback. I did report this only to discover any repercussions would remain confidential between eBay and the seller. I then used the “ talk to an agent” facility because I wanted active intervention. The agent, whilst polite and solicitous, seemed to accept a seller could “ cancel” and didn’t suggest eBay could intervene to get the seller to perform the bargain.
Anyone experienced this sort of Catch 22 where a seller finds it inconvenient to honour their bargain and simply steps away with impunity? It seems to violate any principle of contract law that I’m aware of but eBay apparently condones it.
16-10-2021 03:46 PM - edited 16-10-2021 03:49 PM
You should still be able to leave feedback. Not too long ago a seller cancelled because they had sent me an offer as the second highest bidder. I had accepted the offer but eBay would not let me pay because the seller is registered in the USA, even if they live in Sydney. I had bought from them before, and they are definitely in Sydney. When I went to checkout eBay kept saying that the seller had not specified a payment method for Australia, and this didn't change even after the seller sent me an updated invoice! So the seller cancelled and kindly listed the item with the price as my second highest bid.
Anyway, I noticed that eBay asked me to leave feedback, even if I had left fb for the personal listing, so I was initially confused because I knew I had left feedback, then I remembered the cancelled sale.
As for what happened to you, something similar happened to me many years ago. I had won an auction in the USA and somehow the seller changed his or her mind when he/she saw that I lived in Australia and said it would be better to insure the item and wanted something like $30-40 more, which I paid without questioning because I liked the item. I wouldn't do it any more though if it happened again. I am a bit wiser now.
As for the right to cancel, yes, sellers have the right to cancel. It is a defect in their account, but they can still do it.
on 16-10-2021 04:16 PM
One cannot force a seller to send an item, especially if they have made an error somewhere. In an ideal world, the onus is on the seller to fund the additional postage, but $45 is quite a large sum, so personally I understand they cannot afford it and the easier option is to cancel it.
Depending on how experience the seller is, I would just let this one fly, especially if they are an infrequent seller.
on 16-10-2021 04:37 PM
@pladanwalt wrote:It seems to violate any principle of contract law that I’m aware of but eBay apparently condones it.
When pricing errors occur in a B&M situation, the seller has the right to withdraw the item from sale or they can opt to honour the price, but that choice is definitely the seller's.
This applies as long as no money has changed hands (which constitutes acceptance), but the problem with online sales is that more often than not, pricing errors are not detected at all until the purchase & payment has occurred - it's easy enough to look traditional contract law and transpose it from B&M retail (which was all that existed when most of the legislation was drafted), to online retail, but the way they function is completely different since an online seller can't refuse payments except by refunding them. (To be fair, though, they should not ask for the difference - they should only either withdraw the item, or honour the price, and that part can transfer directly - i.e. I don't think a seller should effectively hold the item hostage for more money, it should either be the item is supplied, or not. The most I have ever done myself when mistakenly underquoting a price [be it for an item or postage] is advise the buyer of my mistake, explain it will be honoured for this sale but can't be in the future).
I'm purely theorising here, so don't take it as a personal assessment or judgement of yourself in particular, but I think what happens in a lot of these cases is that the frustration and disappointment that results from these scenarios is funneled into looking for a way to enforce the sale, to be right - and within rights - to expect and / or demand what a particular party wants. Practically speaking, however, the only way you would have a chance to do that is to take the case to court, and success would definitely not be guaranteed.
On a slightly different note, while there are some sellers that handle these kinds of situations badly, and I've even seen some very experienced, high volume sellers that have done it deliberately, others have not set out to do the wrong thing. People make mistakes, or they might discover the postage service they quoted for isn't available (common in current conditions) - some will take the position that none of it matters, that no matter what, every seller just needs to suck it up and honour a sale even if it causes them a loss; that doesn't sit comfortably with me personally - I will take my own stuff-ups on the chin, because I am making that decision for myself, I can't decide for someone else what is or isn't viable for them, particularly financially. So, I more like to look at things in context, if it was (or is at least most likely) a genuine mistake, I will cut them a little more slack than I would be prepared to for an experienced seller who should know and do better.
on 16-10-2021 05:52 PM
@pladanwalt wrote:
Anyone experienced this sort of Catch 22 where a seller finds it inconvenient to honour their bargain and simply steps away with impunity? It seems to violate any principle of contract law that I’m aware of but eBay apparently condones it.
Which subsection of contract law would you like to put this under, and are you prepared to pay a lawyer to defend it, if it can be substantiated.
Yes this seller may have done wrong in your opinion, but using your example there are many many more buyers, who purchase something, then don't pay.
So life is full of give and take I guess
on 16-10-2021 06:07 PM
on 17-10-2021 09:56 AM
You're right in that ideally, a seller should honour a sale but the cancellation function is there for a reason. I guess the reason is that things can sometimes go wrong.
Back in the past when we sold, we occasionally made mistakes in quoting for postage but we never demanded more money. However, $45 is a lot of slack for a seller to take up.
My own feeling is that a seller should have the right to cancel if they have made a mistake like this or even if they find (as some new sellers discover) that their item sells for way under what they expected it to do. Sellers should not be expected to shoulder big financial losses or virtually give items away. The amount of loss a selelr is prepared to cover will differ from person to person.
My impression is ebay doesn't like this happening (cancelled sales) but there isn't much they can do about it. They can't send someone round to forcibly grab the item. All they can do is act on the seller's account in some way and if the seller plays up too often, close that account.
You could take it to court but it wouldn't be woreth your while. That's the case unfortunately with a lot of things, that the law outlines one thing but trying to enforce it legally is quite another.
on 17-10-2021 01:17 PM
Under Australian (and universal) contract law, an advertised price is not binding and is classified under law as an "invitation to treat" (google the term). A seller may at anytime withdraw the advertised price without any legal obligation to sell it for such.
It is different when it is an (unreserved) auction or when the seller actually communicates an offer ( I know that part is confusing) . Communication of an offer has to be directly from seller to specific buyer (not just a price tag displayed). When you take an item with a price tag to the seller (or checkout online) , It is you who is making the offer and the seller has the choice to accept or decline or make counter offer. Your offer from the seller came when they advised of extra cost of freight and it is up to you to accept , decline.
Big business, making millions or billions, as a rule, accept pricing errors or what is on the tag (but they are not legally obliged to do so either) as the loss is insignificant to them and usually spread over millions of shareholders and that is what causes confusion to consumers because they assume it is law when they see big business doing it. A small to medium business generally can ill afford such unless the margin permitted it and I imagine in this instance that would be the case.
on 19-10-2021 09:50 AM
@pladanwalt wrote:
As a long time buyer have just experienced a novel and very frustrating transaction. Basically I purchased and paid for an item for nearly $400 and for which delivery was included. A day ago the seller contacted me to say their freight costs had gone up and requested I pay the additional amount in question($45). Having thought about it I messaged them and politely suggested that cost should not be on me and that I wished them to honour their bargain. Shortly afterwards they replied that “it was no longer financially viable” for them to complete the transaction and they had “ cancelled” the order and were refunding the price. To my frustration eBay had accepted their purported cancellation and the item was now listed as cancelled so any usual remedy I had for eBay to step in was thwarted. Nor it seems can I now leave negative feedback. I did report this only to discover any repercussions would remain confidential between eBay and the seller. I then used the “ talk to an agent” facility because I wanted active intervention. The agent, whilst polite and solicitous, seemed to accept a seller could “ cancel” and didn’t suggest eBay could intervene to get the seller to perform the bargain.
Anyone experienced this sort of Catch 22 where a seller finds it inconvenient to honour their bargain and simply steps away with impunity? It seems to violate any principle of contract law that I’m aware of but eBay apparently condones it.
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It's a bit of a hard one. Seller could very well be genuine and that extra $45 that they didn't envisage could have made it too costly. Or, it could have been a trap to get people to buy an item and then spring extra post charges on the unsuspecting buyer. I have known about a few like this. Anyway due to the quick refund, IMO the seller could likely be genuine. They should have had more dialogue with you and the Oldie-but-goodie - "How about we split the costs" is always a good solution. That at least should have been offered.
One thing for sure, you should have had option to give feedback.
BTW: I'm very sorry to hear of your inconvenience and loss of time due to this.
on 19-10-2021 06:43 PM
Read the rest of the thread, specifically the one directly before yours.