Seller sent what I'm pretty sure are counterfeit shoes, what are my chances of getting a refund.?

[hellogoodbuy_au]

So I bought a pair of shoes from the UK.  I was VERY confident with sizing because I have a pair that I bought from an actual store here in Melbourne.  They should have been the same.  They were a couple of seasons ago and I can't get the originals here anymore so I bought from the UK.

Anyway, even though the sizing is marked as exactly as my pair.... I DID NOT make a mistake... they are at least 1.5 sizes too small.  So that got me thinking.  This brand would have very good quality control, this really whacked sizing is a red flag to being fakes.

So I notice a couple of other differences, and I am also now convinced that they are not genuine leather.

The seller accepts returns for change of mind, but I feel I did not make a mistake with sizing so I don't think I should pay the return post, which is about $25.  So I opened a case NAD stating that they are not leather and not genuine.  The seller is a fairly big player I think, and they state they have documentation to show they are genuine from the company (but haven't shown it to me).  But they haven't accepted the return yet.  I didn't dare mention about the sizing.  How is this going to play out if I escalate?  

Even if they are genuine, I don't think I could even sell these on, the sizing is so out.

[hellogoodbuy_au]

So what do you think my chances are in winning a NAD?  They are obviously not leather, but aside from that, the fact that I did buy the right size but they don't fit - based on really solid evidence that I already had an identical pair in my hand as reference.  It hardly seems fair that I have to pay for that.  There's no information on the seller's listing to make me think they wouldn't fit.  

[hellogoodbuy_au]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

Apart from your opinion that the shoes are not genuine, what proof have you got that they are fakes?

Usually whn you accuse a seller of sending fakes you have to provide written proof of the fact.

Also the seller does not have to prove they are genuine to you....if they present that proof to ebay they will win the dispute.

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They aren't leather

[collect247]

Have you tested the shoes out?

Get a lighter and proceed to burn the shoe,real leather will only char and smell like hair burning.

Fake leather will catch on fire and burn and smell like plastic.

I known this test might be a bit drastic and any damage to the shoes will stop you from claiming but it's a chance I'd take if I was stating they were fake.

Don't do the test if you're not willing to risk not being able to claim.

If you're claiming for incorrect size then definately don't light the shoes lol.

[phorum_junkie*]

EU40/UK7/US10

That means they are an Au size 8.5 to 9. I have sold dozens of UK shoes and boots and have always listed them as 2 sizes bigger than a UK size here in Australia. I have not had a single pair where the buyer has complained about them not fitting.

If the seller didn't give any measurements then I would have been asking before I bought.

If the size on the shoe is the same as it was in the listing then you will not win a not as described case, something not fitting is not a reason for winning a dispute, if the seller offers change of mind returns then you will be able to send them back but it will be at your expense.

The alternative is to sell them yourself to get at least some of your money back.

[digital*ghost]

The OP hasn't mentioned the sizing in the dispute, only the assumed fact that they are fake (not made by the brand) and not genuine leather. 

Obviously no one here has any way of knowing if the shoes are genuine and / or made from genuine leather, but I do know some cheaper grades of leather can look fake (I bought a purse a while back that was advertised as genuine leather, when I received it, it didn't have that classic leather look or smell to it, and was harder than I expect leather to be. It's genuine, though, just a cheap grade of it. In fact, while researching it I found that the term "genuine leather" actually [officially] refers to third grade material and below that is bonded leather, which is kinda like the spam of leather - i.e. scraps are pulped and bonded together with synthetic material, so while it is actually made up of real leather, it will often look, feel and smell a bit different). 

[collect247]

The term upper leather comes to mind with shoes

[hellogoodbuy_au]

PJ, I think you missed my point entirely.  

I already have the exact same shoes I bought in Australia at a shop.

I bought a second pair because I love them so much and mine are getting worn to death.  I bought the exact same size of the exact same shoe marked 40 ON THE SHOE.

Don't you think it's reasonable to expect the fit of the same shoe to be the same?  Or am I missing something?  I can't get my feet into these ones without scrunching my toes up and they are far too tight across the top.  These aren't the same size as my first pair even though they are labelled the same.  My first pair never felt like this.

Also the leather is really different.  It's hard, it doesn't have the pimpling, it's not sueded on the inside like the other pair (which is a classic sign of fake leather), they don't absorb water (my orignials do). Not willing to try the burn test.

So if he sizing is so out, isn't NAD reasonable? They might be mislabelled for all I know.

[hellogoodbuy_au]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

The OP hasn't mentioned the sizing in the dispute, only the assumed fact that they are fake (not made by the brand) and not genuine leather. 

Obviously no one here has any way of knowing if the shoes are genuine and / or made from genuine leather, but I do know some cheaper grades of leather can look fake (I bought a purse a while back that was advertised as genuine leather, when I received it, it didn't have that classic leather look or smell to it, and was harder than I expect leather to be. It's genuine, though, just a cheap grade of it. In fact, while researching it I found that the term "genuine leather" actually [officially] refers to third grade material and below that is bonded leather, which is kinda like the spam of leather - i.e. scraps are pulped and bonded together with synthetic material, so while it is actually made up of real leather, it will often look, feel and smell a bit different). 

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Totally agree.  The leather on these new ones is hard plasticy compared to my soft flexi originals (they were always like this)

[lyndal1838]

If you bought a pair of shoes in a size 40 and that iswhat you have received then you will not win a dispute.....the shoes are as described.  Just because they do not fit you is no reason for a refund.....they are the size described.

If you want to win a dispute on the grounds of them being fake you will need to get a letter from an authorised third party stating that fact and submit it with your claim.

[hellogoodbuy_au]

You don't think there are grounds for saying that the sizing is wrong, given I have another exact same pair for comparison?  That is concrete evidence that they are not the correct size, yes?

Without measurements, how could I possibly have known that the sizing would be different?  Isn't one of our first pieces of advice when buying online is to try on in a shop first?  It's not like I chose the wrong size by mistake, I was armed with all the correct available information.

Also, if I can prove that they are fake leather, that's another reason to claim NAD?  The listing clearly says leather.  

I don't think it's fair that I'm out of pocket when I didn't make a mistake.