Seller wants cancellation and return before refund - against ebay policies?

[billynlazer]

So I bought a new door remote control for my car and it doesnt work. Part of the reason why I chose a particular seller is that they have a 30 day return policy, which I'm trying to use.

They want me to cancel the transaction, then return the remote and then they promise to refund the purchase price.

I went to cancel the transaction but the ebay site clearly states:

"How would you like to respond?
I accept the seller's request to cancel this transaction.

You should only accept the cancellation request if you haven't paid yet or you've already received your refund from the seller. "

I emailed the seller this and they blandly stated that they cannot refund until the remote is returned.

So now we are stuck - they wont refund without cancelling and returning; ebay policies seem to state that I shouldnt cancel without having first been refunded.

What is the best course of action here?

[cq_tech]

You should send it back and wait for your refund before accepting the cancellation notice. Put yourself in the seller's position. What would you do in similar circumstances? Once he has refunded your money, what's to prevent you from simply keeping the item or on-selling it to somebody else? He doesn't know you and therefore has no reason to trust you.

To put it another way, say you wanted to return an unwanted mobile phone you'd just bought from the local Optus shop. Would you expect the owner to give you a refund before he had the phone back in his possession? Of course you wouldn't, and this is no different. Just return the remote, get your refund, and then you can accept the cancellation notice, but not before.

[digital*ghost]

Ok, the seller can not refund without having the item returned, but that doesn't really have a lot to do with the cancellation... In the main, the cancellation is so that the seller gets their fees for the sale refunded by eBay, and wouldn't affect much else. 

Now that the cancellation request has been sent, if you don't respond to it, the seller can close it manually themselves after 7 days and get the fee credit either way, but if you respond and disagree, they do not get the credit and can not send you another request, so from the seller's perspective sending a cancellation request carries some risk. 

You could let the seller know you're happy to agree to the cancellation once refunded, but while I am loathe to foster any mistrust between buyer and seller, it would be remiss of me not to mention that returning an item to a seller without PayPal's express instruction (if you paid that way), compromises buyer protection, so in some cases it is advisable to conduct the return process via PayPal. 

Just as an aside, with or without a 30-day return policy, a buyer is entitled to remedy if the product is faulty (generally, unless stated otherwise in the return policy details, a seller's return policy and time frame etc applies to return options above and beyond what is required by law - eg change of mind returns, which are optional for sellers to accept - and it does not replace, restrict or void standard consumer rights).

[billynlazer]

Thanks for the responses. 

"so in some cases it is advisable to conduct the return process via PayPal. " - do you mean dispute the transaction and handle it all that way?

[harley_babes_hoard]

Yes I most certainly would.  But send it registered so the seller cannot say they didn't get it and you have proof for paypal that you have returned it. Do not send it back until paypal give you the address to send it to.

[digital*ghost · Accepted solution]

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@billynlazer wrote:

Thanks for the responses. 

"so in some cases it is advisable to conduct the return process via PayPal. " - do you mean dispute the transaction and handle it all that way?

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Well, it's difficult for me to expressly recommend it, but in the interest of buyer safety, if you don't have 100% confidence that things will go smoothly with the return and refund process, the safest thing to do is open a dispute - I wouldn't do so without explaining to the seller the reasons why, though. As much as I wouldn't be overjoyed if I was the seller, I would understand and not begrudge the action (can't say the same for all sellers, obviously, but your primary concern is protecting yourself).

[lane-ends]

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@digital*ghost wrote:

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@billynlazer wrote:

Thanks for the responses. 

"so in some cases it is advisable to conduct the return process via PayPal. " - do you mean dispute the transaction and handle it all that way?

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Well, it's difficult for me to expressly recommend it, but in the interest of buyer safety, if you don't have 100% confidence that things will go smoothly with the return and refund process, the safest thing to do is open a dispute - I wouldn't do so without explaining to the seller the reasons why, though. As much as I wouldn't be overjoyed if I was the seller, I would understand and not begrudge the action (can't say the same for all sellers, obviously, but your primary concern is protecting yourself).

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Going through the paypals item not as described process will guarantee seller gets a defect strike, no matter what he does to rectify it. So what is the point for sellers to be helpful with easy returns.

Good sellers will often cover cost of return posts. If you go via dispute they will probably not and you will need to send signed for.

[digital*ghost]

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@lane-ends wrote:

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Going through the paypals item not as described process will guarantee seller gets a defect strike, no matter what he does to rectify it. So what is the point for sellers to be helpful with easy returns.

Good sellers will often cover cost of return posts. If you go via dispute they will probably not and you will need to send signed for.

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True, I didn't think about the defect aspect - it's not yet entrenched as a motivating factor for advice and/or decisions.... It just means there's one more reason for me to wish we had a simpler, mutual return system here like there is on eBay US, one that doesn't trigger a defect if utilised, nor compromise any protections because an official return address has to be provided outside of any kind of dispute process...

What eBay does to a seller shouldn't really affect how helpful a seller is with a customer, though, in that I don't think there's any reason to be less helpful just because a buyer wants to ensure they're protected no matter what happens. I mean, IMO no good seller would turn around and go "well, they've done their damage, so no need to be a 'good' seller any more with this one". And if they do, being a 'good seller' is just a facade. 

[davewil1964]

My understanding is a cancellation request, unless it is 'buyer changed mind' or similar, triggers a defect anyway.

[jensmanchester-australia]

So I bought a new door remote control for my car and it doesnt work. Part of the reason why I chose a particular seller is that they have a 30 day return policy, which I'm trying to use.

Based on your statement that you chose this seller due to their return policy of 30 days is this a change of mind purchase because the remote wasn't compatible with your car or is the remote faulty.

If it is a change of mind purchase then going through Paypal is definitely not the way to handle this. For change of mind purchases the item needs to be returned before the seller issues a refund.