Sellers who say they accept no responsibility for loss in post

[purplesuz68]

I'm just curious as to what others do when they see the usual "I take no responsibility for Australia Post" blah blah.

Do you just avoid these sellers? Or do you buy the item anyway (especially if it's something that's hard to come by), of course paying with PayPal so you're covered if the item does get lost in the post? And do you point out to the seller that they are actually responsible, or do you just let it slide if there are no problems?

This is all assuming that their feedback is good with no complaints about items not received.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Bardots online ebay terms and conditions...............

Terms and conditions eh...who would have thought they were any use at all.....

When you agree to buy you agree to the sellers terms and conditions.

http://stores.ebay.com.au/bardot-official-store/Terms.html

Your acceptance and agreement to these terms and conditions is given when you purchase Goods from Bardot eBay store.

In order to purchase from Bardot eBay store, you must first register as an eBay member.

For security purposes, Bardot in its discretion is entitled to request credit card verification. Otherwise, Bardot reserves the right not to proceed with the order sale and refund the payment made.

You are prohibited from purchasing Goods from Bardot for the purpose of resale and on sale to other persons whether as a business or non business and Goods are only for personal use including but not limited to gifting and/or on behalf of another for their personal use.

A breach of this will result in cancellation and/or refusal of registration/ order for Goods.

Returns Policy

Shipping and handling costs are not refundable

Customers will be responsible for the cost of sending Goods back to the online store.

You must enclose:

(1) a postage paid self-addressed satchel for us to replace your new Goods;

(2) your original receipt and

(3) a completed Bardot eBay store exchange form with your new order for Goods

We recommend you

(1) use a traceable delivery method for all returns and

(2) either insure your delivery for safe return to Bardot or declare the full value of the shipment so you’re completely protected if the shipment is lost or damaged in transit.

If you choose not to undertake these recommendations you are responsible for loss or damage to the product during delivery.

The old switcheroo reverse engineering terms and conditions

some real... corkers there... gotta love the credit card verification term

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Those that use ebay, accept and preach ebays terms and conditions yet pooh pooh sellers terms and conditions make me laugh......... The status quo of hypocritical conveniency remains 😛

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/buy/safe-trading.html

buyers help for safe trading

Evaluate the listing

Review the postage terms, refund and return policy, and other terms and conditions.

Make sure that you’re eligible to bid on or buy the item.

 If the seller has any buyer requirements that you don't meet, contact the seller for permission prior to placing a bid or using the Buy It Now feature.

Make sure that the seller offers your preferred payment method and that the payment method offers purchase protection.

Where is the bit that says........ ignore the terms and conditions that you and pj do not like and "imagine" the ones you would prefer then include them???

[digital*ghost]

Those that use ebay, accept and preach ebays terms and conditions yet pooh pooh sellers terms and conditions make me laugh......... The status quo of hypocritical conveniency remains 😛

+1

Although I wouldn't have put it quite like that. :8}

[bichchi]

before you buy it ask them to send it registered mail if it gets damage you can claim up to $100 from aust post as they do ruff handle items

i my self sell some items with this rule as last week i posted a gas heater insured it and it arrived smashed

[phorum_junkie*]

Tell me PJ, with all your years of experience with giving buyers advice in connection with PayPal INR claims, exactly what is the “more” that you say PayPal would “obviously” require the buyer to provide other than just saying "I did not receive it”

Is this something new.

I was replying to your point that if a seller has used a delivery service that qualifies for Paypal protection then the seller would not have to cover the cost of a refund. Your inference was that if an item was stolen from the doorstep or by a dodgy delivery contractor the buyer would not get a refund, I am sure they would if they could provide further evidence as suggested but the seller would not have to cover the cost, Paypal would.

[tall_bearded]

I don’t think you understand my earlier question.

I can find no mention in the PayPal User Agreement, nor does it appear that it even infers that, for the purposes of a ‘Item Not Received’ claim, should the seller be able to prove postage thus requiring the buyer be compensated by way of a discretionary payment, before such a payment is made, the buyer is obliged to substantiate there clam, which is something they have never been required to do in the past.

So in so far as you say the requirement for such substantiation is “obvious”, is this because you believe that is the way it should be, or is that what the User Agreement now requires, and if so, what part of the agreement stipulates the requirement, or at the very least infers it.

[tall_bearded]

Oh and the answer to the question is important because, in the past your advice has been, if the item is purchased on eBay, and PayPal can’t recover the cost of the claim from the seller, then PayPal will automatically make a discretionary payment, whereas you now appear to be saying, the discretionary payment will now only be made after the buyer has substantiated their claim.

If that is now the case, then buyers need to be aware of this change in policy by PayPal , so they can make the most informed decision as to the kind to protection best suits their specific requirements.

[gec2002]

In general exclusion clauses are not looked upon favourably by courts.  Just because you put something in your T&C doesn't make it legal, it must be consist with other legislation to be upheld if tested in a court of law.  Much of what is written in T&Cs is bluff and not enforcable, and while Paypal would have a team of lawyers checking theirs I doubt the average small seller does. phorum_junkie  "How on earth do you work out that a seller should be punished for an item being stolen from a buyer porch or mailbox?" by the fact that the seller has an obligation  to completely fulfil their contract of providing the goods after accepting payment.

lyddal1838 "gec, you have to prove that a Stat Dec is false" I dont think that was the point the stat dec was to paypal to prove they had posted.  I think the FO would accept a stat dec as proof of postage

[digital*ghost]

Just because you put something in your T&C doesn't make it legal, it must be consist with other legislation to be upheld if tested in a court of law.

True, but the "no responsibility for lost mail if registered/insured is not used" is legal in Australia.

Just because PayPal make it easy to disregard that particular Term of Sale, doesn't mean someone has a legal right to. Simple fact of the matter is, they don't.

In any court of law in Australia, proof of shipping would need to be established before the seller is released of responsibility for a lost parcel. PayPal, for the sake of ease of process etc, have narrowed the scope for what they will consider proof of postage, but if a seller lost a case and took the complaint higher, establishing proof of postage can be done in a variety of ways other than what PayPal will accept.

I personally think not taking responsibility for lost parcels is a poor business decision - doubly so here on eBay - but not every one here is a business seller. At any rate, while I don't have that TOS, for as long as it is a perfectly legal decision for an individual to make, I will respect their right to make it. (And before anyone asks, yes I have purchased items that didn't arrive, and due to the seller having given me the opportunity to make an informed decision about who is responsible for the risk of loss, and deciding to accept that risk, I did not ask for a refund for the simple reason that I am prepared to a) honour the contract I make with someone, and b) take responsibility for the risks I choose to take).

[jameshouseofstyle]

Hi gec,

there is no way in this world, under the law of physics even that any seller (person) can be held responsible for someone else's actions. They can, or we all  can be directly responsible  only for something that we do ourselves and have a full control over.

Sellers have every right in the world to put that in their TOS (and I don't even care weather this contravenes Ebay or PP rules - as that is not the point here) - point being that unless they personally hand the parcel to the client and have to depend/relly on a third party to deliver it - how do you think that clause in their TOS is unenforcable?

It's very much relevant and enforceable as January related in one of the first few posts - what happened to her friend - she lost big time as seller could prove they posted it.

When a seller tells you  that if you care what happens to your item pay to have it sent Registered and you ignore it you have done your money - no matter how many negs you leave for the seller in anger because they will not replace your item. And those sort of negs get removed anyway.

All those buyers , like J's friend who relly on what they read on the boards: " Don't pay for registered post, that is for seller's protection, you got PP to protect you" are in for a rude shock!

With regards to all, Helen