Sent item back (unopened) as agreed and seller has not refunded me

[trebs36]

This issue is currently with Paypal, escalated to request for refund, but I am looking for comment as to what might be the decision.

In short I purchased a mobile phone, listed as unlocked (it's not), returned as agreed for a partial refund of $330 (stupid me and I paid for all postage including registered, signed for return postage) - all done outside the resolution centre as Paypal suggests you try to resolve yourself first.

So the seller receives it back and I get a notice from Paypal of the refund last Saturday. Today, Wedesday, I get an email from Paypal stating that due to account problems with the seller, the refund to me has not gone through and that I should contact him. Meanwhile the seller has relisted the phone as 'Carrier Telstra' ie locked and has sold the phone buy it now. Bordering on a criminal act in my opinion.

No point negotiating any further with him so I lodged the claim for refund through Paypal this morning, Wed.

Despite being polite and patient through the process of dealing with this fella (I can't see how he has achieved 100% positive feedback) I have made some mistakes I have learnt from this horrible experience. In return he has been sneeky and arrogant eg I asked him pre sale if he had the original purchase receipt and could he post it Express Post ( offered 2 times to pay the extra) - Yes he said to both. Purchased it on a Friday and he sent it Ordinary mail (as listed I know) on the following Wednesday and I received it the next Monday. Said he forgot and turned out he did not have the purchase receipt from Telstra either. After that I sort of guessed the phone was going to arrive locked because he would not answer that question. He sent me a copy of the receipt from Aus Post with the postage date conveniently cut off.

I needed the phone urgently so we reached an agreement for the partial refund even before the phone arrived and when it did I sent it straight back, package unopened. His re-listing describes marks on the screen, not on original listing, probably because I reminded him of his obligation to list accurately

Will Paypal be able to see the ebay emails between us both? I referred Paypal to these in my claim. They will note his rude, arrogant and slow to respond emails to me.

Mistakes I made were trusting an ebayer to accurately describe an item, buying second hand (never again) and my biggest one was giving accurate precise negative feedback to him this morning and about 10 minutes after that I get the email from Paypal saying refund did not go through. It is interesting to note that immediately after I lodged the Paypal dispute the earlier Paypal email dissappeared from my Google inbox!

What are my chances here? Never had any real problem with ebay until now.

I am prepared to lodge a police report and to take this to Adelaide's Today/Tonight where there was a similar recent issue to mine and Paypal reneged on it's responsibilities, decision quickly reversed when it went to air.

Thank you

[lyndal1838]

First to address the postage issue.....the seller CANNOT send a mobile phone by Express Post.  You cannot send items that contain lithium batterie by air.  It has to be sent by road with the appropriate stickers.

As to the main query.....there is increasing evidence that paypal will no longer cover refunds when the items are sent back before they advise of the correct address to send the item.

I can't see how paypal could remove an email from your google inbox....that is stretching the conspiracy theory a bit far.

[trebs36]

I have tracking info. for returned parcel and seller has confirmed its receipt in ebay email, so I do not know how Paypal can put that argument forward.

Yes lets just forget the conspiracy theory. Would really like to know if Paypal reads ebay emails before it makes a decision. Any experienced ebayers?

[poppy-3348]

Ebay & Paypal cannot read each others messages & will not. Two different entities.

It would be nice if they did, just a shame they don"t.

[trebs36]

Thank you for that info. Is there any way now, having lodged the dispute and claim that I can contribute/attach further evidence in support of my claim. Seems I can only read what I have submitted.

[*crikey*mate*]

it is my experience that PayPal don't corroborate with eBay, they consider only what is in their system, so my advice to you is to raise a dispute and write a very detailed account and time line of what happened, including copy paste relevant messages etc.

Then the seller has the opportunity to dispute your claims, all of which is in the system

It might work? It is at least worth a shot.

Otherwise, call PayPal and see what they have to say and what they advse.

However, I fear that they will decide that you returned the item outside of their direction, so I think yiou will have a fight for them to make a discressionary payment which they would have to do if they cannot retrieve the funds from the seller.

Best of luck with it

[trebs36 · Accepted solution]

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@*crikey*mate* wrote:

it is my experience that PayPal don't corroborate with eBay, they consider only what is in their system, so my advice to you is to raise a dispute and write a very detailed account and time line of what happened, including copy paste relevant messages etc.

Then the seller has the opportunity to dispute your claims, all of which is in the system

It might work? It is at least worth a shot.

Otherwise, call PayPal and see what they have to say and what they advse.

However, I fear that they will decide that you returned the item outside of their direction, so I think yiou will have a fight for them to make a discressionary payment which they would have to do if they cannot retrieve the funds from the seller.

Best of luck with it

Thank you for that advice. I managed to get through to Paypal by phone, a lengthy process of selectng 'other' option each time to get through to an actual person.

I was give an email address to use to attach additional info. in support of my already lodged claim. I did a lot of copying and pasting of ebay emails where seller stated he had received the return item etc. + other scanned docs. Not sure if this system will allow the email address but here goes-

consumertech@ebay.com

I read in Paypals info. that if someone makes a refund to your Paypal account that person can come back at a later date (not sure how much later) and cancel the refund (theft in this case) IF the funds have been left in the PayPal account!

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[jensmanchester-australia]

I read in Paypals info. that if someone makes a refund to your Paypal account that person can come back at a later date (not sure how much later) and cancel the refund (theft in this case) IF the funds have been left in the PayPal account!

No that can't be done. Are you sure the refund wasn't processed as an echeque payment as that could explain why it was cancelled a few days later by Paypal.

[lyndal1838]

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@jensmanchester wrote:

I read in Paypals info. that if someone makes a refund to your Paypal account that person can come back at a later date (not sure how much later) and cancel the refund (theft in this case) IF the funds have been left in the PayPal account!

No that can't be done. Are you sure the refund wasn't processed as an echeque payment as that could explain why it was cancelled a few days later by Paypal.

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I agree with Jen...no-one can take money out of your paypal account once it is in there.  A failed echeque can be cancelled by paypal however if they are unable to collect the money from the bank account.

[*crikey*mate*]

My chinese light guy sent a payment to me via PayPal, then a few days later put in an INR as I hadn't supplied the goods for the payment.

That was the payment of $30 he gave me for the long wait to get the items

PayPal initially took the money off me, but after I rang them and told them to look at the notes (this was all documented etc about what the payment was for etc and that they were to watch if he tried to reclaIM it as they suspected he might etc) and they made a discretionary payment to me as they couldn't take the funds back off the bloke.

so I spose it depends on how they put through the money?