damaged vase

[sprinklespowerpuff]

Hi, could I please have some thoughts from experienced sellers on this. Received today 2 ceramic vases. When opened 1 fine, other large crack. In seller's pics on listing no damage at all. Paid for registered post, no insurance. There was some foam inserts round inside of box but not a lot of bubble wrap or other protection on inside top of box. Mailing box was not damaged. No dents, squashing nothing. These only had to come from Toowoomba to Brisbane not the other side of the country. In seller's listing they state will not take responsibility for items damaged in post without insurance. I know AP are picky now about packaging and believe they would say there wasn't sufficient packing. Seller did tape "fragile'' printed sticky tape round box. Postage cost me $17.95, vases were $20. Have sent msg to seller but no response - as yet. Was a few hours ago. I would like to add that I have bought quite a few ceramic/pottery items here and o'seas and never had damage like this. Huge crack. Thanks so much in advance for your help.

[*new2vintage]

When a Paypal dispute is opened and escalated the outcome is decided by Paypal and the seller's terms mean nothing.

[dylan11235813]

When a Paypal dispute is opened and escalated the outcome is decided by Paypal and the seller's terms mean nothing.

To paypal maybe......

[davewil1964]

In the end the seller does what is agreed in the terms. There seems some debate about when ownership transfers the the buyer.

As sprinkles stated - registered (which is the only form of insurance available for an item of this value) was paid for therefore the sellers terms were met. Even if they are unenforceable.

And it doesn't really matter when ownership was transferred. The seller is obliged to pack the item in such a manner as to comply with the carrier's terms. Which they obviously didn't, because the carrier states all parcels must be able to withstand having 20kg dropped on them from waist height. From sprinkles' description, there was little or no padding, and none mentioned as being INSIDE the vase to help it withstand shock.

[tall_bearded]

“When a PayPal dispute is opened and escalated the outcome is decided by PayPal and the seller's terms mean nothing.”

That is until the seller disputes the decision with the FOS, at which time PayPal will  reverse its decision; not only because it is terms and conditions of sale which forms basis of the contract between the seller and buyer, and neither eBay or PayPal are a party to that contract, but also because the Australian PayPal Buyer Protection policy doesn’t extent the definition of “significantly not as described to items” damaged in transit.

Furthermore as a person who has sent literally thousands of fragile items through the post, and in those rare instances where the item has arrived damaged has never had a claim rejected, I can categorically state, contrary to what  has been stated here,  Aust Post will compensate under their Discretionary Claims Policy for broken items, but only as long as the packaging was adequate.

[viewmont1071]

4 Compensation and Extra Cover

4.1 The domestic Registered Post service provides compensation on the article in the sum of $100 and the cost of this is included in the fee for the service. Additional compensation cover up to $5,000 is available under the Extra Cover service.

4.2 The terms and conditions of the compensation, and additional compensation cover, referred to in clause 4.1 are those terms and conditions applying to the

Extra Cover service service provided by Australia Post.

13 Who can Claim

13.1 Subject to clause 13.2:

13.1.1 if the article in relation to which the Service applies has been delivered, only the addressee may claim under the Service;

and

13.1.2 if the article in relation to which the Service applies has not been delivered, only the sender may claim under the Service,

13.1.3 provided, however, that either the sender or the addressee may irrevocably assign in writing its right to claim to the other.

link to the schedule 1 extra cover service terms and conditions

http://auspost.com.au/statutorydocuments/generalpostalservices/frame.htm

[viewmont1071]

http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/shopping/refunds-and-returns/online-purchases

this is what the consumer affairs board of Victoria says regarding.... if you prefer hearsay then that is your perogative and lookout

postal issues with online purchases

Postal problems

If your goods go missing or have been damaged in transit, the delivery service (rather than the seller) may be responsible.

Contact either the courier company or Australia Post.

If they do not resolve your issue, you can contact the Postal Industry Ombudsman.

[viewmont1071]

and...given that one vase arrived safely uncracked

....how can anybody say that the packing was inadequate??/

Both vases were packed in the same box I guess..... must have just been the lucky one eh????

FFS you have insurance, a broken item and are second guessing what AP will say????

How about instead of guessing... how about,,,,wait for it......

making the claim and then deciding what to do re the seller after AP have had their lash???

anyways carry on regardless ?:|:|

[viewmont1071]

There was some foam inserts round inside of box but not a lot of bubble wrap or other protection on inside top of box. Mailing box was not damaged. No dents, squashing nothing.

 I would be thinking about these things when claiming

Have I received any fragile items previously that were not packed as well as this item but arrived safely and if so how many?

How many items that were packed with approximately the same care as this item have I received intact?

Have I ever received any items that were packed more securely than this item that were broken and if so how many?



As the receiver I would also be wondering whether any packages weighing greater than 20kgs were processed by the intake/delivery centres and delivery van on the day that my package was processed which would exceed the weight that the package was designed to withstand?

(given that AP under contract and by agreement carry packages that weigh more than 20kgs or have a cubic volume greater than 20kgs)


Heaven forbid that the 1000 to 1 shot comes in that they might pay almost everybody for broken item claims originating from Toowoomba sorting centre because "Fred's Toowoomba bait and tackle shop" sends 10 boxes of sinkers daily weighing 32kgs that are only the size of a  football all over Australia under contract and they expect a few claims

However that would be just me applying to get a full refund (for the broken item) and a refund for that part of the AP service that I paid for and may not have met their delivery standards.

If the claim was unsuccessful because of insufficient packaging then I would contact the seller with APs reason for refusal (a second opinion if you like) and try to seek a mutual agreement happy that I had tried my best and exhausted other avenues.

[dylan11235813]

In the end the seller does what is agreed in the terms. There seems some debate about when ownership transfers the the buyer.

As sprinkles stated - registered (which is the only form of insurance available for an item of this value) was paid for therefore the sellers terms were met. Even if they are unenforceable.

And it doesn't really matter when ownership was transferred. The seller is obliged to pack the item in such a manner as to comply with the carrier's terms. Which they obviously didn't, because the carrier states all parcels must be able to withstand having 20kg dropped on them from waist height. From sprinkles' description, there was little or no padding, and none mentioned as being INSIDE the vase to help it withstand shock.

20Kg from waist hight, wow, obviously AP do not have a fragile service. I doubt much would withstand that much punishment, maybe about 10 meters of bubble wrap on something the size of a (something small) How do people go about sending animals and plants?

[***super_nova***]

Just because one vase was fine and the other broken means nothing.  One may have been more sturdy.  Or the broken one was on the side of impact; even if the box was not damaged if there was not much stuffing around the vases, if dropped the would have been force impacting on the fragile item - possibly the other vase hitting against this one.

Does not matter how many times seller will say they are not responsible, they can put it in neon lights, the fact is they are responsible for packaging safely.  Who else should be responsible?  As TB said, if it was well packed then AP would compensate. 

The problem is that if the seller does not offer reasonable partial refund, and PP rules in sprinklespowerpuff's favour, she will have to send both vases back for refund.

sprinklespowerpuff  of-course you have to supply photos of the damage, why should the seller take your word for it?