eBay AND PayPal SUPPORT DISHONEST SELLERS

[vvinn]

The seller listed "COCA COLA ZIPPO LIGHTER X 3". I did ask for genuineness,

she told me she listed for a friend and specified as her friend note. The lighters

i got have no Bottom Date Codes. On claim to return , PayPal answered me :

" We received your fax. However, the document provided does not meet our
requirements.

The requested document should be provided by an unbiased third-party, such
as a dealer, appraiser or another individual or organisation that’s
qualified in the area of the item in question (other than yourself), which
clearly identifies the item as unauthentic. Providing us with personal
information is not an exceptable form of authenticity documentation.

The document you provided doesn’t support your claim that the item is Counterfeit. "

ARE eBay AND PayPal SUPPORTING DISHONEST SELLERS TO INCREASE
TRANSACTIONS FOR MORE PROFIT ?

Pictures attached.

[*crikey*mate*]

No, but PayPal need proof from an independent qualified thrid party to veerify that the item is a fake.

Give them the documentation that they require (by law) and they will more than likely find in your favour.

When it comes to stuff like this, "liar, liar, pant's on fire" is just not gonna work.

Neither eBay nor yourself have any idea of your motives or qualifications to verify this item a fake, hence the need for an independent third party.

[vvinn]

Do i need an expert to verify a new hand watch with no logo, emblem and codes is not a

genuine SEIKO watch ? Are you happy to pay $100 for an appraiser fee to claim $50 ?

[amber-eyed-girl]

You do not need an appraiser, just any seller of Seiko that has a letterhead. So you could try a jeweller who sells them or a department store.

For Paypal not authentic claims, you need an independent expert on a letterhead stating the item is fake.

If you have someone asking for expensive payment to write you a letter, move on and ask someone else.

Paypal, if you call them, may even give you more time to get the letter if you say you know the item is fake, but you are still looking for an expert to state it in writing.

[*crikey*mate*]

this is the law.

PayPal do not know you from a bar of soap, for all they know, you are being a dishonest buyer (they dio exist, ya know?) and trying to scam a seller!

You have made a pretty serious accusation, now you have to provide some proof of that to back up your claim. The cost of obtaining that proof is irrelevant! Withiout proof, your claim is nothing more than an unsupported accusation and quite possibly defamatory.

Here's how the law works, it doesn't matter what you know or believe, it only matters what you can prove.

[*crikey*mate*]

You pay $60 and international post for 1 Coke Zippo Lighter in swanky zippo packaging plus overseas postage and then you find 3, listed for $45 presented with a dodgy picture but showing the lighters in cheap celeophane plastic bags... and now you're surprised about their authenticity?

If something looks too good to be true, it generally is.

Ask the questions before bidding.

If you know how to tell a real thing, then ask for a photo of it with those stamps iykwim or whatever it is that provides the proof of authenticity. There's no point askin and expecting the truth, cos as yuou have found out, the "liar, liar" line doesn't work after the event.Ask for proof!

If the seller refuses to supply the proof, either take the risk, or don't buy.

It's that simple.

If that $45 was a good price, then there's a reason for that.

[vvinn]

Pay Pal know me well, 469 positive no negative no neutral, instant payment. What will i gain to scam a seller,

losing $10 in return-shipping cost ?

Unsupported accusation ? The seller admitted later on emails to me and PayPal : "The items that have been sent are a zippo style lighter and branded coca cola."

[*crikey*mate*]

You're a buyer, you can only have 100% positive feedback.....

I'm just the messenger, I'm not making the laws or the rules, ok?

You are one customer, PayPal have 232 million more. When they're handling those kinds of numbers, they have to apply the same rules and laws for everyone, it's a one size fits all set of rules.

You have made a claim, PayPal have told you (and it is available in their terms and conditions for you to read when you join) what you have to do to satisfy this claim.

They're not protecting the seller, they're just following the rules and laws.

Do what they ask, and you will find that they will protect you. It is you that is protecting the seller by not supplying the information that is required.

Look, I don't know how this works, but if you are confident the items are fake, try reporting to the online fraud police squad if you can't/won't satisfy PayPal's requirements. I think it's through Qld, but they handle Aus wide, but they will probably provide proof as well. I don't know, maybe they pay for that proof, I have no idea, but I doubt that even if the people are found to be guilty that this gets your money back, I think this just gets them into a bit of strife... (how much strife can an inexperienced eBay hobbyist get into for listing 3 zippo lighters that sold for less than $50?)

Regardless, you made the statement that eBay and OPayPal were sup0porting fraudulent sellers. At this stage, those claims are unfounded as you have failed to do what it is that is required. It is you, by your refusal to provide the proof in the f9ormat requested that is supporting an allegedly dishonest seller.

IMO, looking at the 2 different listings, I reckon you got greedy and decided to take the risk thinking it'd be easy to claim "liar, liar"....

you've bought a fair few zippos, so I'm gonna guess that you know what to look out for, but the thought of a bargain clouded your judgement.

Have you got it written anywhere where the seller claims that the lighters are genuine? They need to specifically say that they are genuine zippo lighters or words to that effect.

The listing title, as it appears is not enough. (at this stage, anyway)

Maybe flick zippo an email and alert them, maybe they're part of the VeRO program or will help you with your claim?

I dunno, but the bad guys here are neither eBay or PayPal, and it sure ain't me.

If you want resolution, do what it is that is required by policy and law to get that resolution. or don't.

It's that simple.

[*crikey*mate*]

Replicas, Counterfeit Items, and Unauthorised Copies

[phorum_junkie*]

If you have an email from the seller admitting it is not genuine then you need to call Paypal, please don't go off at them because they are fllowing their own policies, and tell them you are not happy about the case being found against you and that you have the email, ask if they will add that to the other information you have given then=m and issue a refund.

If they still refuse tell them that because you have the email you don't think you need any further proof so will be making a complaint to the FSO.

You ask what you wil have to gain as you will have hardly anything left after sending it back....the whole point about proving something is counterfeit is that you do not have to refund it although Paypal may ask for evidence that it has been destroyed.

Have you contacted Zippo and asked if they can provide verification that it is not genuine?