paying via paypal for local pick up items safer for buyers ??

[colic2bullsgirlore]

I wondered why many posters intimate that paying via paypal for local pick up is not as safe as payment via cash for a buyer

when neither method affords buyer protection ?

So what is the difference??

It would appear to me that lobbing at a strangers residence with an iphone/pad or laptop and making payment via paypal after

inspection may be a safer option for a buyer as opposed to arriving at a strangers residence with wads of cash with the

intention of purchasing after a positive inspection.

I understand most sellers would probably prefer cash and that a cash transaction would mostly be considered safer. However it

is my understanding that credit card chargebacks are not available for pick up items and I think some sellers would prefer an

electronic transfer rather than recieving cash from a stranger

Thoughts anybody?

Interesting piece I found on the net re chargebacks and debit cards

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PayPal and chargeback

Watch out if you use your credit or debit card to load money into your PayPal account or other similar online accounts, as it is the

loading of the money that is considered to be the card transaction.

If the money that you load into your account is then subsequently used to buy goods and services, that transaction is not classed

as a card transaction and is unlikely to be covered by chargeback.

If you're making a card purchase through PayPal it's best to empty your PayPal account regularly so there is no credit balance.

That way, when you make a card purchase through PayPal, the same amount will be debited from your bank account or credit

card as goes immediately to the seller.

This will make it easier for your bank or credit card provider to match the purchase with the debit.


#######################################################################################################

Can anybody explain to me why they recommend cash  payment after item inspection is safer than electronic payment via iphone

or lappy after item inspection for buyers????

I have seen it written many many times

[digital*ghost]

I agree that it probably isn't the norm for a chargeback to be initiated on a pick-up item. I also understand there are some legitimate reasons for a buyer to want to use PayPal and that paranoia about potential issues can be counter-productive, but I don't think it's scaremongering to make people (whether they are the buyer, the seller, or neither and just curious - whatever) aware of all possibilities, whether they are probable or not. I'm assuming that not wanting to carry around wads of cash is a decision based on the possibility for something to happen, not the probablility, and the decision by a seller to prefer cash on pick up is the same thing. 

As I've said before, whether you qualify for seller protection or not, you can still fight a chargeback no matter what the reason it was initiated, so a seller could still gather / provide some decent evidence to fight and win an unauthorised use claim (assuming the person who picks up is the cardholder, and identity can be verified / recorded, and all parties are prepared to go through that process - I see no reason why requiring an identity check couldn't be a TOS if the buyer elects to pick up and pay via PayPal). 

[thecatspjs]

Just wanted to add too, that using credit card funded paypal also gives me a level of insurance on particular transanctions in the event that those goods are stolen. 

Consumer protection and safe payment methods are there for a reason.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@thecatspjs wrote:

For those of you encouraging others to break ebay policy by refusing safe payment method for pick up only items - please note the cut and paste of the site map.  

 Accepted Payments Policy

 eBay wants to ensure that the marketplace offers buyers safe, appropriate and convenient payment choices for the marketplace.

 Safer payment method requirements

For most categories of listings on eBay.com.au, sellers need to offer at least one of the following safer payment choices:

PayPal

Paymate

Credit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account

---

But this is where the 'conflicting policies' of eBay and PayPal come in to play.

eBay require sellers to offer a 'safe' payment method, BUT, PayPal User Agreement does not give seller or buyer protections for items that are hand delivered by the seller or collected in person by a buyer.  This comes straight from the PayPal User Agreement (see cut and paste sections below and click https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en-US#Schedule_1_PayPal_Seller_and... to go strainght to the PayPal user agreement page that these c&p come from):

PayPal Seller Protection Policy

     Limitations

     S4.1     The PayPal Seller Protection Policy will not apply to a transaction if:

           f.     The item is hand delivered

PayPal Buyer Protection Policy

     Eligibility

     S10.1 You may be eligible for the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy if all the following requirements are met:

          i.     Your purchase is not for:

                     vi.      Items you collect in person or arrange to be collected on your behalf

(end of cut and paste)  No scaremongering here, it is simply a conflict between eBay requirement for a safe payment method to be offered and PayPal limitations on seller and buyer protections i.e. PayPal does not offer protection for buyers for pickup items AND, for sellers, it can be an unsafe method of being paid if the payment is made through PayPal and funded with a credit card.  These aren't myths, they are facts.  Click the PayPal link I have provided above and below and read for yourself.

To make it easy for anyone who does go to the agreement, the relevent section numbers and subsections/parts/clauses are the same in this post and the PayPal User Agreement i.e:

Limtitations S4.1 - (f),

and

Eligibility S10.1 - (i) - (vi)

found on webpage https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en-US#Schedule_1_PayPal_Seller_and...

[thecatspjs]

I don't carry around wads of cash for any purpose,  There is simply no reason to do so, whether for bill payment, shopping or picking up ebay items.  My consumer preference is to transfer funds via electronic means or otherwise bank cheque. 

In the world outside of ebay and paypal, traders don't have paypal protection .... if you can't cope with trading without "seller protection" then don't offer goods for pickup on ebay and try to avoid their consumer protection policy of having to have a safe payment method.   

[digital*ghost]

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@thecatspjs wrote:

I don't carry around wads of cash for any purpose,  There is simply no reason to do so, whether for bill payment, shopping or picking up ebay items.  My consumer preference is to transfer funds via electronic means or otherwise bank cheque. 

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I'm not talking about why you would choose to carry cash around, I'm talking about the reasons you have given for NOT carrying cash around. The nuance may look subtle, but there's actually a big difference.

You've also gone on to say that paying for a pick-up item via PayPal (funded by a CC) gives you a level of insurance in case the goods turn out to be stolen - that is the same basis for a seller not wanting to accept PayPal, in case the goods they sold end up being stolen by the buyer who (briefly) paid for them. Logic dictates that if you can understand the reason you make your decision, then you can understand the reason a seller makes theirs if it's the exact same reason. 

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@thecatspjs wrote:

As a buyer I have picked up items and paid via paypal on the spot.  I will continue to use this method for any higher priced item that I am paying big $$$ for.

Can't see how a seller can refuse, unless they offer an alternate safe payment method. 

I do it this way for a range of reasons including transparency for my financial and tax requirements.  In addition, I will never be comfortable walking around with wads of cash. 

There are a number of posters who seem to seek to create board / ebay myths on a regular basis on a number of matters - and in relation to the pick up scenario IMO have even encouraged the most unfriendly seller behavior by using scenarios that are not the norm and scaremongering. 

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cats, I respect your right to pay by PayPal for high priced pickup items, however, readers need to know that PayPal policy offers no payment protection for buyers who pickup.

Once again, this is not myth or scaremongering, it is a fact that PayPal User Agreement does not protect sellers for items that are hand delivered and does not protect buyers for items they collect in person.

[thecatspjs]

My choices are not against ebay policy. 

Re insurance, it is just another factor, one of many. 

[bsal6160]

Would not a logical conclusion to this conumdrum then  be;

To pay by Paypal for pick-up items, two forms of identity must be provided to seller prior to purchase?

[thecatspjs]

My advice to sellers is this: in the context of no seller paypal protection, and you are not wiling to accept a safe method of payment for pick up only goods, then find another venue to sell them.

To buyers, if a seller will not accept your safe payment, and or refunds it, report them to ebay for seller non-performance, as they are breaking ebay policy.

More importantly this type of seller is denying your consumer rights to transact in a manner that offers you more consumer protection than if you paid by cash only - including ability to recover of funds through credit cards, and a legitimate, reliable documentation that may assist in situations where liability or damages are sought down the track if the item is faulty or causes harm etc etc  

Paypal isn't the be all and end all of consumer protection, there are a range of consumer remedies available for buyers.  

I think requesting presentation of an acceptable form of ID for pick up items being paid by electronic funds transfer is sensible for goods that are of reasonable value.  

[*crikey*mate*]

Lets say I sell an item which is picked up by the buyer and they pay me via PayPal. What is there to stop the buyer from opening up an Item Not Received Dispute a little while down the track?

PayPal will ask the seller to provide a tracking number and proof of postage. If the seller is unable to provide either, then the buyer will probably receive their money back. This way, the buyer will not only have the goods, but the money as well.

From the information provided by Sir Sales above, it seems that PayPal won't accept a document that the buyer signed saying that they had inspected the item, loved it, paid $10 cash for and took it home with them.

I think that this scenario is what Lyn was pretty much referring to way back in an earlier post as well.

I'm not sure about the requirements of a chargeback through the bank for Item Not Received, so this comment is only about PayPal.