on 24-12-2020 04:18 PM
g'day, had s seller cancel a sale due to listing not reaching price wanted,didnt have a reserve, seller cancelled 'due to postage address problems' has postage listed in ad...immediately re-listed ad, no reserve set again..
on 27-12-2020 08:45 PM
You have never sold anything.
Unless, of course, you have another, selling, ID. Which you have claimed in the past to be duplicitous.
You really have to keep track of your claims. Being proven to be lax with the truth doesn't contribute to your, minimable, credibility.
You are also on record, in this thread, as assuming the seller is less than honest.
How do you reconcile those statements?
on 27-12-2020 09:55 PM
@4channel,
I know you have a very strong opinion about this. I respect your right to have that opinion. There is certainly a view to be defended on the subject of offers and acceptances, and the expectations created in a buyer.
However, I don't really agree that "the winner deserves it at whatever price they won it at". (Rubrication mine.) Getting a Leonardo da Vinci original drawing for $5.00 does not seem right to me, for instance. In particular, if the playing field is loaded (by an eBay seller being of the opinion - encouraged by eBay - that starting the bidding low leads to a better outcome), then there cannot really be, in my view, a "meeting of the minds". If there is no meeting of the minds, it cannot really be said that a contract has been formed. The issue of the buyer "deserv[ing]" it is another thing altogether; it makes a moral imperative of a transaction, and disregards any affective buyer behaviour (or third party behaviour) which might have lowered the "price they won it at". That's just something to consider, pehaps.
As a general statement, too, perhaps I should state that I do not believe in karma. I do not believe that there is a checks and balances system in the universe, and that it all evens out in the end. I do not think that the universe in which we live is fair. That doesn't mean that I don't believe in good and evil, and it doesn't mean that I don't believe that when we do good, there is no moral or universal benefit. But I emphatically do not think that if a seller keeps selling items at below cost, he/she will be showered with financial reward.
In my view, a seller who sells items at too low a price (i.e., at well below cost) is going to lose money. A foreseeable end for such a seller, if that is their income, is bankruptcy, not a greater shower of gold than Danaë ever experienced.
As another general statement, when I help others, or do something that could be considered "good", I do not expect a return. It is lovely to have kindness returned, but I want never to think of doing good and/or receiving good to be a quid pro quo, otherwise it would defeat at least one purpose...
27-12-2020 10:34 PM - edited 27-12-2020 10:37 PM
Any seller that lists an extremely high value item like a Da Vinci will know what they are doing. This is the world of auctions and the name of the game is enter and do it, but if it don't come out your way then you have to wear it, pure plan and simple!
When I have sold some items both on eBay and other venues I've been straight. On eBay, I had a couple that didn't go the way I wanted. I was happy to make someone else happy and I knew I could get more next time around. I don't like the idea of someone else being sad because I tried and failed. A man has to take care of where he makes mistakes. Having worked in various customer service and sales roles, the motto is ... "The customer is always right". I like the "Old school" ethic! The name of the game is just keep on keeping on and adjust where necessary I don't expect karma or reward as something binding, no, not at all. OK, but it is a well-known fact that good done does invite good. It does work for people.
A seller that lists low and gets low bids will soon adjust to higher starting bid. Nobody will opt to lose deliberately by repetition.
If sellers are continually allowed to shirk their responsibilities then auctions should be outlawed here and it's just Buy It Now or Make an Offer that should be the only selling options.
Most or just about all of the various cases we have heard about here where sellers have come up with excuses and tales as to why they can't supply an item to a winning bidder are ones where the seller has more than liout kely got their money back but not the big price that was hoped for. These are not cases a buyer winning a $300 item for $2. If that was me winning say a $90 shirt for $5, I would say to the seller, look I could help you out some. I actually did that with a UK seller. Not in an auction scenario but one where he sent me some rare news articles that time had made brittle and one had partially gone. I suggested a partial refund just for that rather than the full amount he initially offered me.
Actually, there is one seller I have to do something for. He sent me a lemon but I may help him when I can.
28-12-2020 07:36 AM - edited 28-12-2020 07:41 AM
@davewil1964 wrote:You have never sold anything.
Unless, of course, you have another, selling, ID. Which you have claimed in the past to be duplicitous.
You really have to keep track of your claims. Being proven to be lax with the truth doesn't contribute to your, minimable, credibility.
You are also on record, in this thread, as assuming the seller is less than honest.
How do you reconcile those statements?
I am not sure why you are claiming 4channel is lax with the truth here. Out of curiosity, I clicked on his 4channel ID and he looks to have had quite a few sales, albeit over a year ago. But he definitely has had some experience selling, he is not lying.
In fact, even though I may not agree with every one of his views (nor he with mine), I have never had any doubts that he is a truthful kind of person.
As to the original posted issue. the main problem I see is not so much that a seller reneged on a sale because he had set too low a starting price, but more that the seller cancelled but has not learnt from his mistake and is listing at the low price again.
I don't entirely agree with Jon or 4channel that a seller should always be obliged to sell at a give away price because as countess mentioned, ebay goes out of the way to encourage sellers to list at a ridiculous starting point. I think newbies can and do get sucked in. So I can understand a seller backing out of a sale in some circumstances.
However, it does seem to happen too often on ebay. Maybe there need to be certain prompts when someone is making a listing, such as the one countess suggested and definitely pop up messages that warn sellers that a buy it now price is NOT a reserve.
Maybe there already are, it has been ages since we listed anything for sale so I don't know, but whatever is in place obviously needs to be tweaked to make things crystal clear to sellers.
There do need to be penalties for sellers who renege several times on sales over a short period of time. I know that technically there already are but I am wondering what happens if a seller just ticks 'problem with an address'; as that takes the blame, if you like, off the seller and labels it as a buyer problem. The fact that Jon's seller was savvy enough to tick that as a reason and not that the item was no longer available suggests some knowledge of ebay. Enough anyway that they should know better than to keep listing at a price lower than they are willing to take.
on 28-12-2020 10:14 AM
I only went back 5 years.
It seems the last feedback as a seller was back when sellers could leave negative feedback. So, more than 11 years ago, when eBay was a far different place, and the policies were a lot different.
28-12-2020 03:55 PM - edited 28-12-2020 03:56 PM
@4channel wrote:
A man has to take care of where he makes mistakes. Having worked in various customer service and sales roles, the motto is ... "The customer is always right". I like the "Old school" ethic! The name of the game is just keep on keeping on and adjust where necessary I don't expect karma or reward as something binding, no, not at all. OK, but it is a well-known fact that good done does invite good. It does work for people.
This phrase is misused so often I wish all memory of it was wiped from the face of the earth , mostly because some consumers like the sound of it and think it's there to remind sellers (or businesses) that they (the sellers) are there to cater to the buyer's every need, demand and whim (which, of course, is not the case at all).
The phrase itself is over 100 years old, so it is indeed "old school"; it has also garnered criticism for nearly just as long, so opposition, counter-arguments and counter-practices to the phrase are also "old school".
Originally, it was touted by retailers as counter-practice to the whole "caveat emptor" school of thought, as in "no need for that, we'll take on all the responsibility and liability of your bad purchase decisions, and / or incorrect operation of the products you've purchased". So, it was never intended to mean "the customer should get their way, in any circumstance, no matter what".
Most sales-oriented businesses have morphed it in to a philosophy, the phrase more becoming "the customer is always right.... about what they want".
In other words, it has been used to mean many different things over many years, and is (at least to me) a worthless platitude, not a magical "abracadabra" to use to try and bend someone else to a particular customer's will.
This is not a defense of sellers who withdraw items post-sale (I get it, people are imperfect and their failures are annoying), just an opportunistic rant.
on 28-12-2020 04:34 PM
Of course the customer is not always going to right 100% of the time and I didn't intend the phrase to mean that in a binding way. where it's do it or face the firing squad. However, I do like the sound of it as it does hark back to a time where customer service really existed. As I mentioned, I have worked in various sales related roles and I always liked the "I take pride in my work" ethic. We don't see a whole lot of that these days.
Once upon a time some sales posts in shops used to have the sign "The Customer is Always Right" hanging up or positioned somewhere. It is a good guide!
28-12-2020 05:04 PM - edited 28-12-2020 05:05 PM
@4channel wrote:
Once upon a time some sales posts in shops used to have the sign "The Customer is Always Right" hanging up or positioned somewhere. It is a good guide!
My point was that something can only be a guide for others if it has a universally understood meaning - if it has to be clarified exactly what is and isn't meant by something, particularly when one of the things it isn't is a commonly held belief, it's not a guide to much, it only works to reaffirm what someone already thinks, or is an attempt to stop them from thinking further (see next paragraph), which puts everyone back at square one, frequently on opposite sides and with a continuing failure to communicate meaningfully, and / or constructively (JMHO).
As a standalone phrase, as a sign hanging in a shop window, and the last dying scream of the Karen (with apologies to those named Karen), I see it as more a thought-terminating cliché.
Honour and integrity are good things, pride...eh, limited but sometimes appropriate use - these concepts are easily understood but can be thought about at great depth as well as practiced from a surface-level understanding, can apply to everyone no matter what their role in a transaction is, don't give anyone a false sense of entitlement and (with the exception of pride) don't tend to encourage dismissal / disrespect / elevation of one party over another.
on 29-12-2020 08:56 AM
@davewil1964 wrote:I only went back 5 years.
It seems the last feedback as a seller was back when sellers could leave negative feedback. So, more than 11 years ago, when eBay was a far different place, and the policies were a lot different.
I don't know when the sales were and you're right, ebay is a different place, but I think the issue of sellers and buyers sticking to the expectations is still an ongoing one on ebay.
There is probably a faster way for you to scroll or filter through someone's feedback if ever you are interested, you don't need to read it all. What I did was I went into feedback and just hit a tab there that says 'feedback as a seller' and if a person has sold anything, it should come up. Mind you, when I did that, it just said 'over a year ago'.
29-12-2020 11:05 AM - edited 29-12-2020 11:06 AM
@takumi83j wrote:Just today i had a seller who 8 days after i paid cancels the order,refunds and gives me the "sorry it got damaged" excuse
OK, sorry I just re-read your post and realised that you are within the 60 days.
The "It got damaged" excuse is from the same bag of dirty tricks some sellers use as the "don't worry, I'll send you a replacement" trick where the seller strings along the unsuspecting buyer for months until the feedback or PayPal options have expired.
@takumi83j wrote:i can't leave any negative feedback??
There should be a way to leave some neutral or negative feedback on a cancellation. I'm not sure how to do it or where to find the facility to do so but I have heard that there is. I think it disappears from the purchase history but the way to leave feedback after a cancellation is hiding somewhere. Perhaps some of the other posters here will know. sorry, that's all I can say at this time.
If it can still be done and I'm sure that it can, please keep it to the point without any pzazz or too much emotion as it can get removed.
BTW: THis is a good way to keep sellers in line and also warn suspecting buyers of a potential hazard ahead.