27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ18-07-2014 07:02 AM
http://www.thereporter.com.au/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-shot-down-over-ukrai/2322591/
DUTCH authorities have confirmed that 27 Australians were among the 295 on board the Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 which crashed overnight.
Anyone with concerns about friends or family, contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on 1300 555 135
DFAT: 'Grave concerns' for Australians on board MH17
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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โ22-07-2014 10:36 PM - edited โ22-07-2014 10:37 PM
Anything spoken and sounds made from cockpit to and from air traffic controllers would also have been recorded in real time by traffic control - not just by the planes cockpit voice recorder.
The only spoken words from the cockpit recordedin real time by traffic control are radio communications. Any conversations between the crew only go onto the cockpit voice recorder.
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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โ22-07-2014 10:55 PM - edited โ22-07-2014 10:58 PM
ref.
....The missile strike would have happened so suddenly....
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................
There are/were reports that a jet fighter was seen.
Jet fighters do release CHAFF and FLARES to confuse any missiles aimed at them.
ref.sheelefant :..... I believe there is an unconfirmed Russian report that a Ukrainian military plane was in the area at the time......
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
Your opinion that you agree(?) with this that it was a Ukrainian jet ?
IMO this jet was not Russian and not Ukrainian nor a rebel jet.
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ22-07-2014 11:01 PM
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ22-07-2014 11:25 PM
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ23-07-2014 12:46 AM
@paintsew007 wrote:ref.
....The missile strike would have happened so suddenly....
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................
There are/were reports that a jet fighter was seen.
Jet fighters do release CHAFF and FLARES to confuse any missiles aimed at them.
ref.sheelefant :..... I believe there is an unconfirmed Russian report that a Ukrainian military plane was in the area at the time......
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
Your opinion that you agree(?) with this that it was a Ukrainian jet ?
IMO this jet was not Russian and not Ukrainian nor a rebel jet.
I haven't read the report, (that's why I said "I believe") so I am not able to offer an opinion (that's why I said "if this is true.")
If, in your opinion, the jet was not Russian, not Ukrainian and did not belong to the rebels (I understand the rebels do not have any war planes ) can we assumethat you believe it to have been an American plane?
From what I have heard - though perhaps you have more definite information - the Russians are claiming it was a Ukrainian military plane. I can't help feeling that if they had the slightest suspicion it might have been a US plane they would be saying so.
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ23-07-2014 09:56 AM
Time for a reality check
There is nothing โsophisticatedโ when it comes to Russian military equipment and that includes SAMs. In fact the technology used is as rudimentary as one can get away with, which is the reason why they are so popular with third world countries. That is, unlike their western counterparts where you have to have year 12 (or higher) education, and it takes a minimum of 3 months to impart the basic skills to use them, but only under the strict supervision by someone with a few years of accumulated knowledge and experience, the Russian equivalent requires a few days to be taught to someone with third grade primary school literacy and numeracy skills. However this simplicity comes at cost, and that cost is not borne by the technology uses for target acquisition and firing. That cost is borne by the technology and experience used to distinguish โfriend or (from) foe.
As for photograph showing evidence of chaff, where did it come from? I mean a commercial airliner is not fitted with either threat receivers or counter measures. In any even if they were, they would have been deployed at 33,000 feet, and because it weighs near to nothing, it would have followed a different parabolic trajectory to the ground than the aircraft itself. That is, the photo is of smoke rising from the ground, which means if the strips in the picture are chaff, then the only way both could have been at the same place at the same time, is if were possible that two objects, with the same point of origin but following different trajectories can end up at the same place; which Iโm pretty sure, if you apply the laws of physics, is simply impossible.
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ23-07-2014 10:48 AM
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ23-07-2014 11:10 AM
@am*3 wrote:The last thing I read said the rebels are probably going to use the black boxes and the bodies ( which are being stored on stationary refrigerated trains at present in an area controlled by rebels) as bargaining tools.
Well, they are not doing that. The bodies they gathered so far are now handed over, as are the flight recorders. I think your statements are bigoted and insulting to people of Ukraine. There is a war going on, the people are being shelled, I suspect they did their best they could under the circumstances. They did not do it the way we would like, but they tried to retrieve the bodies, and handed over any documents. Most of the footage from the crash site I have seen had explosions and gun fire clearly heard in the distance. Why it took several days to get the 200 bodies they so far found to the hands of the Dutch? Well, maybe they hoped to have them all before sending the train on. The debris is over many kilometers of fields of high grain and sunflowers.
Voltaire: โThose Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocitiesโ .
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ23-07-2014 12:13 PM
We could spare a thought for the innocent people on the ground who were bombarded with debris from the explosion...
โShe was only half a person but she was a woman, maybe in her 50s,โโ Ms Tipunova said. โBut she was here with us in the house. We know the situation of war and are so aware of bombs dropping and we thought it was a bomb. But it was worse. I know this is all part of war, but it is very sad.โ
The body was taken away, but not for a while, which added to Ms Tipunovaโs distress. Lime powder is now scattered on the floor where there were pools of blood, but the stench of death remains, as do blood-spattered pots and pans.
โTell everyone how it is truthfully, everyone must know,โ she says.
Everyone in the rural village has a similar story, some even worse than Ms Tipunovaโs.
But they also wanted to share their stories with The Australian.
No-one had spoken to them about their distress - not even the authorities - and they were pleased to share summer fruits and tales of horror, some just too graphic to print.
It was a quiet hamlet of little more than two dozen or so farm houses early last week, but by last Thursday it had become the village of the dead.
Thereโs Ms Tipunovaโs elderly neighbour, local farmer Sascha. He too had a passenger from the Malaysian Airlines flight drop through his roof.
Tatiana said it was โraining humansโ as she tended the fields and now canโt erase the scene from her mind. Nor can Liliya Alexandrovnr Kuhta, 43, who, along with her daughter, saw bodies and debris fall across the village. In all, 39 victims of the Boeing 777 flight landed in the village.
โEveryone here cried for two days,โโ Tatiana said. โCried and cried and cried, the crying was non-stop, how could you not? But then we knew what we had to do.
โWe lined up shoulder-to shoulder with the local coal pit workers and walked through into the fields of sun flowers to find these people. They deserved respect and we went to get them.โ
The coal pit workers also yesterday walked through large wheat belts looking for bodies.
Liliya pointed out where two bodies were immediately found in her village yesterday, then walked through the villageโs three roads, then continues pointing out to the left and then the right and then the roof of a home, then a barn, then a field.
โOver there was a nine-month old baby, just nine months,โ she said. โWhen the sun flowers fall, we will find more I know this. Itโs terrible, sad. Everyone here believed it was a Ukraine fighter jet that shot the airline down. Who knows. But Australia and these countries should come here, these people need a memorial. Tell them to build a memorial here.โ
Re: 27 australians missing on downed malaysian flight
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on โ23-07-2014 03:04 PM
Update:
Following the official handover of the 'black box' Washington officials believes that pro-Russian separatists are the ones most likely to have shot down the Malaysia Airlines jet "by mistake".
US intelligence officials think that the most "plausible" case scenario is that these separatists were not aware that MH17 was a passenger flight when they fired, what the United States believes was a Russian-made SA-11 surface-to-air missile.
By Friday morning, other scenarios replaced the assassination theory.
One focused on the Buk missile launcher that Ukraine says brought down the plane. State-owned Rossiya TV pinned blame on Kiev by saying the rebels did not own one, while Ukraine recently deployed a Buk launcher to the area.
An Associated Press journalist saw a Buk launcher โ which rebels have bragged about owning in social media โ in rebel-held territory near the crash site hours before the plane was brought down.
Rossiya further said that the red, white, and blue of the Malaysia Airlines logo "resembles the Russian tricolor" โ hinting at a Ukrainian attempt to blow up a Russian passenger jet.
Looks like no-one really knows happened, at least those that do aren't telling. The whole sorry tale is awash with accusations, counter-aaccusations and conspiracy theories.

