And so now he's gone....bye bye Novax

[imastawka]

Novak Djokovic has lost a bid to stay in Australia after the Federal Court upheld the government's decision to cancel the tennis star's visa.

The Federal Court hearing, expedited to take place the day before the Australian Open begins, is the culmination of a weeks-long saga over the Serb's visa.

The men's world number one arrived in Australia just before midnight on January 5, had his visa cancelled by Border Force officials shortly after, then had it reinstated by a Federal Circuit Court judge in a hearing last Monday.

Late on Friday, Immigration Minister Alex Hawke cancelled Djokovic's visa for a second time, citing "health and good order grounds".

Djokovic's lawyer's disputed that decision, taking it to court for judicial review.

The full bench of the federal court this evening ruled against Djokovic.

In the Federal Court today, Djokovic's lawyers accused the minister of producing no evidence to back his claim that Djokovic's presence in Australia would incite anti-vaccination sentiment. They also argued it was irrational, illogical or unreasonable for the minister not to consider that deporting Djokovic could whip up the same sentiment.

Djokovic's lawyer Nick Wood said Mr Hawke had misinterpreted media reports about Djokovic's views on vaccination, and the level of support he receives from anti-vaccination groups.

He was particularly critical of the minister's reliance on a BBC article as evidence Djokovic opposed vaccines. He argued the article was written before vaccines were available, and it actually showed Djokovic had an open mind and did not believe himself to be an expert. He criticised the minister's failure to ask Djokovic himself about his views.

But the minister's legal team argued there was ample evidence of Djokovic's "well-known stance" on vaccination — including the fact he had refused to get vaccinated himself – and that the minister had no obligation to ask Djokovic about his views.

They said Djokovic could not prove the minister had not considered the possibility that deporting him could also stir up anti-vaccination sentiment, and even if he did not consider that outcome, that would not amount to an error on his part.

Federal Court rules on Novak Djokovic's legal fight against visa cancellation (msn.com)

Will they keep him out for the three years?

Personally, I applaud the decision.

[not_for_sale2025]

I thought we were having a reasonable discussion about Djokovic. You stated, "Many respected medical professionals are not in agreement with that kind of statement." I clarified that the Australian Heart Foundation and their medical affiliates are the key sources providing the advice I referred to. I have asked you to identify the "respected medical professionals" whom you claim are not in agreement. That's not "bait", it's a request to elaborate on the statement you have made. Surely if these respected medical professionals have evidence which contradicts the advice provided by the AHF, then it is relevant to this thread and could enrichen the discussion! If you can't identify the respected medical professionals, then each reader will form their own conclusion about your statement. 

[4channel]

A good way for you to learn more about what really is the score is to do some research on your own. Sadly and due to the fact that corporate sponsorship mainstream media dictates what we are allowed to read, see and hear, personal research is required. There are some folks who due to undisclosed agendas disallow reasonable discussion and debate in online communities. Hence the reason I only now visit occasionally.

My opinion of Mr. Djokovic is that he has been unfairly treated in the media and his motivations for for doing what he has done, while some being personal come from values that have been instilled into him at a young age. Right or wrong as his stance may be, it is worthy of recognition as it is representative of something that is becoming more rare these days.  It is something we used to cherish generations ago. Values!

A good portion of his stance, or what gives it grounding is recognized by a good amount of medical professionals who have good old-fashioned solid core values and who will not allow mega corporations and the influence gained by money to turn them into something which compromises those values!

[not_for_sale2025]

I have completed much research into Covid-19, including Medical Journals, reputable research studies and widely with good ol Mr Google. I have not found anything by a respected medical professional which contradicts the advice provided by the Australian Heart Foundation. I can only conclude that they do not exist. But that's OK. From what you write (above) about Mr Djokovic, it is ironic how much he sounds like you!

[padi*0409]

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@4channel wrote:

A good way for you to learn more about what really is the score is to do some research on your own. Sadly and due to the fact that corporate sponsorship mainstream media dictates what we are allowed to read, see and hear, personal research is required. There are some folks who due to undisclosed agendas disallow reasonable discussion and debate in online communities. Hence the reason I only now visit occasionally.

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It's been noted that in the past your "personal research" has led you to so-called "medical professionals" that are easily proven to be conspiracy theorists, or outright liars, by respected medical bodies.

Perhaps that is why you do not want to reveal your sources.

[4channel]

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@padi*0409 wrote:t's been noted that in the past your "personal research" has led you to so-called "medical professionals" that are easily proven to be conspiracy theorists, or outright liars, by respected medical bodies.

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Rather than noted it's been uttered and parroted by certain people that anyone who goes against the official narrative are, "conspiracy theorists, or outright liars".  And as for respect, well .. .. ..  In the sphere of official recognition it (the respect) often comes with a degree compromise lol. One thing about Mr. Djokovic, there are certain things he will not compromise or trade off on.  Right or wrong as end of days judgement will surely prove, he has stood solid.

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@padi*0409 wrote:

Perhaps that is why you do not want to reveal your sources.

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Not at all old chap!

I know that there were 3,000 plus Doctors, Scientists who accused COVID Policy Makers of "Crimes Against Humanity"

Spoiler

Here's a few ...

* Dr Sucharit Bhakdi
He is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.

* Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine.
He is Professor of Medicine, Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine and a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).

He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine. As a physician, scientist and author Dr. Ioannidis has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. He pioneered the field of meta-research, and has shown that most published medical research findings are false.

* Dr. David Katz
He is an American physician and founding director of the Yale University Prevention Research Center.

* Dr Joel Kettner
He is professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases

* Michael Levitt, PhD,
An American-British-Israeli-South-African biophysicist. Since 1987, he is professor of structural biology at Stanford University. Dr. Levitt received the Nobel Prize in chemistry, together with two colleagues for the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems.

* Professor Luc Montagnier

2008 Nobel Prize winner for Medicine in 2008, for discovering HIV

* Professor Stuart Newman
Professor of cell biology and anatomy at New York Medical College, and the Editor-in-Chief of the journal Biological Theory.

* Michael T. Osterholm, PhD, MPH,
He is regents professor and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. Dr. Osterholm has been warning for more than 15 years that the world would be confronted by a pandemic. His recent book, Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs”

* Jacob Puliyel, MD, MRCP
Former Head of Pediatrics at St. Stephens Hospital Delhi, of Research Projects, Holy Family Hospital, Delhi, India.

* Professor Didier Raoult, MD, PhD
He is a French physician and microbiologist who specializes in infectious diseases. In 1984, Didier Raoult created the Rickettsia Unit at Aix-Marseille University. Professor Raoult is the Director of the Institut Hospitalo-Universitaire Méditerranée Infection de Marseille. He is indisputably an expert in communicable diseases. According to the American Society for Microbiology, Dr. Raoult is the most cited microbiologist in Europe.

* Dr Yanis Roussel et. al.
A team of researchers from the Institut Hospitalo-universitaire Méditerranée Infection, Marseille and the Institut de Recherche pour le Développement, Assistance Publique-Hôpitaux de Marseille, conducting a peer-reviewed study on Coronavirus mortality for the government of France under the ‘Investments for the Future’ programme.

* Prof. Hendrik Streeck
He is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University.

* Dr Pietro Vernazza

He is a Swiss physician specialising Infectious Diseases at the Cantonal Hospital St. Gallen and Professor of Health Policy.

* Professor Knut M. Wittkowski
He worked for 15 years with Klaus Dietz, a leading epidemiologist on the Epidemiology of HIV before heading the Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design at The Rockefeller University, New York for 20 years. Dr. Wittkowski is currently the CEO of ASDERA LLC, a company discovering novel treatments for complex diseases from data of genome-wide association studies.

Rather than clutter the page, I put this brief  list, a quick grab in a spoiler for you. I know that Mr. Djokovic while motivated by his core values has done some research and he has confirmed his beliefs I dare say by doing research.

As I am not an anti-vax type of person, I've always held the belief and will continue to do so that some vaccines are helpful.  Yes, I'm for isolation and other similar measures. For all folk, this experimental range of jabs (((it often takes over a decade and more to prove safe a vaccine))), should be one of choice. The fact that "vaccinated people" spread virus too is enough to close the case here and make these regulations (No vax no entry) look as draconian and stupid as any of the past stupidity that mankind has bought into.

In conclusion, (sort of), I think that Mr. Djokovic has dared go where many group thinkers refuse to go. Like the buyer that goes to the source, cutting out the middle man, he has got to where he feels he should be. Gotta admit he's got some heavyweight credible folk to back up what he has learnt.

[domino-710]

Oh geez - if that's not cluttering the page. 

KNAW.

[countessalmirena]

4channel, I won’t go through each of the persons you reference. Let me just address S. Bhakdi.

His education is exemplary, and some of his work has been useful and exciting. Looking over some of his papers, I do see a tendency to become fixated upon a particular explanation and trying to force data to fit the explanation, rather than letting the data guide the explanation. His work in ASVD is a case in point. He was stubbornly resistant to redefining his hypothesis… and I speculate that this points to an underlying refusal to fuse intelligence with humility and grace, to reshape early conclusions in the light of additional data, to consider explanations other than those indicated by a notion reached prior to research testing and studying.

His views on COVID-19 are laughable. They are demonstrably untrue. Are you aware that he claimed Germany’s deaths from the virus would not exceed 30 a day? GERMANY? Am 14. Januar haben 1,244 gestorben mit  COVID-19. I’ve posted that here in German. Januar is close enough to January for you to need no additional translation, apart from the word gestorben. It means “died”. 1,244 Todesfälle an einem Tag. Todesfälle = deaths. It derives from the word tod (dead).

Tag = day.

S. Bhakdi is also on record as being anti-Semitic.

Clever people can be wrong, stubborn, prejudiced.

We are - all of us - flawed and it does not make any of us “respected” if we say foolish or wrong things, even if we have worked in the microbiological field, the biochemical field, the pathology field, etc. I am very careful to refer to high quality medical studies rather than posting here in the basis of my expertise (which I don’t discuss here) because data is what must drive our response… and my own trumpet is no better than anyone else’s (for the sake of argument.)

One more thing: you are wrong in declaring that vaccines need 10 years of tests. You could not be more wrong. You confuse vaccines requiring 10 years of tests, as opposed to being stalled over 10 years for the LACK OF FUNDS AND RESOURCES to actually TEST THEM.

I do wish that non-specialists in vaccine development would stop saying the uninformed things they are saying. I will reiterate: vaccines require trials that demonstrate efficacy, dose information, lack of adverse side-effects within the tested cohort. Once the vaccine meets those standards and the trials provide that information, it can be developed and administered generally. There will ALWAYS be further information gleaned from wider population dissemination and that data will inform further administration information of the vaccine.

The COVID-19 vaccines did not skip any step in the pre-clinical and wider trials whatsoever. They took less time primarily because the “dead time” (trying to get funding for each stage of the trials, and sufficient volunteers, and the governmental permissions/approvals - which is purely a matter of paperwork and committees) was eliminated.

Even as I type this, I feel despair and futility. I already know my words will not convince you (or anyone blindly opposed to rational and logical and informed argument / studies / data) and that you will continue to value the words of “renegade experts” who speak in opposition to the very great majority of scientists/medical experts/doctors because you are convinced that that very great majority are deceived or deceiving. 

Oh well. I couldn’t square it with my conscience if I didn’t at least try.

[4channel]

It would be impossible and not really constructive in the greater scheme of things for me to reply to you how I should countessalmirena. My reply would be courteous and measured but me being candid .. .. ..   Oh well,  it will invoke reactions from others here who are looking for a piece to pounce on. I can just see them coiled up and ready to self-trigger.

There are a range of books you can read and there are a whole lot of highly credible medical professionals who explain how there have been certain means used come to certain tallies if you like. Tallies that appear to represent but when looked at closely have included things that should never have been included.! *wink* Anyway, with respect to Bhakdi, well OK, if he is off the mark as you say then so he is. He'd be one in a growing crowd of thousands who is wrong. Perhaps all of these thousands and thousands of medical professionals belong to some kind of cult of anarchists who want to create havoc. *SIGH*

When medical professionals (usually the non-corporate sponsored type) say that a jab with an unstable delivery technology (IE: mRNA) is wwwaaaaayyyyyyyy too early, untested and technically experimental, I think they know more than you and I. Robert Malone, a pioneer in mRNA has been very vocal, expressing his concerns. He is only one of many!

Funny now that people are going to end up being jabbed multiple times to avoid getting sick with the only official alternative, some highly expensive oral drugs. Yet, historically used drugs that were not allowed to be used due to tangles and tangles of red tape were effective and saved lives! People before profit doesn't exist much more n the West any more than it does it countries we consider undemocratic.

Anyway, Mr. Djokovic is the elite of the elite! He has maintained his level of fitness and mental ability by being both healthy in mind and body.  He is well educated in certain things.

[countessalmirena]

Without trumpeting my qualifications, I will only say that my extensive library will always welcome additional textbooks, studies, research papers, journals and more. You haven’t quoted from sources that I am likely to consider authoritative, but I don’t want to rule out any information based on sound scientific method. Feel free to message me with a bibliography - but I want to stress that I will red-pencil titles that don’t meet the standards I expect in these fields.

If you really know something of the issues involved in “delivery stability”, I’ll very briefly address that by mentioning that research into the actual mechanisms of physical and chemical degradation of mRNA vaccines is ongoing. I know of two such studies in Australia alone; there are others globally. That doesn’t negate the use of successfully regulated and stabilised mRNA vaccines against COVID-19, as current refrigeration storage and delivery issues are successfully being managed. It’s a logistics issue of great demands but it can be done and IS being done.

mRNA vaccines are one of the most exciting multi-disease developments in the vaccine field right now.

I realise that you - or others - may still be sceptical or afraid or worried. I don’t believe in forcing people against their very deeply-held beliefs to be vaccinated; that is a difficult stance for me given that I also believe that when a highly communicable respiratory disease is causing a pandemic, it is staggeringly important to protect at-risk people by putting in place such restrictions or rules that will minimise the risk of those people suffering adverse outcomes. Don’t think that my view about protecting people at large is always comfortable; I weigh up risks, benefits, what rights are most important, and what the data shows us.

Are you more comfortable with Novavax?

Re Novak Djokovic, he’d wipe the floor with me when it comes to tennis. He wouldn’t do that in discussing science/medicine. I admire his tennis; I don’t admire his refusal to be vaccinated. I feel very much as though the whole Australian Tennis debacle with him smells fishy.

[4channel]

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@countessalmirena wrote:

Without trumpeting my qualifications, I will only say that my extensive library will always welcome additional textbooks, studies, research papers, journals and more. You haven’t quoted from sources that I am likely to consider authoritative, but I don’t want to rule out any information based on sound scientific method. Feel free to message me with a bibliography - but I want to stress that I will red-pencil titles that don’t meet the standards I expect in these fields.

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Sources I quote from are from the most respected medical professionals. Sadly they don't do the BIG PHARMA shareholders$$$$$$$$$ much of a service, and due to the fact that corporate sponsorship dictates what our media tells us, we don't get to see the light. There are many medical papers and findings from prestigious doctors who have shot holes in much of the aspects of that official narrative.

The hatchet job media attack that is being carried out on Professor Peter McCullough and other doctors , professors with core-values is just a joke.

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@countessalmirena wrote:

If you really know something of the issues involved in “delivery stability”, I’ll very briefly address that by mentioning that research into the actual mechanisms of physical and chemical degradation of mRNA vaccines is ongoing. I know of two such studies in Australia alone; there are others globally. That doesn’t negate the use of successfully regulated and stabilised mRNA vaccines against COVID-19, as current refrigeration storage and delivery issues are successfully being managed. It’s a logistics issue of great demands but it can be done and IS being done.

mRNA vaccines are one of the most exciting multi-disease developments in the vaccine field right now.

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Pioneer of mRN technology, Dr. Robert Malone has voiced his concerns and doubts about the safety of this.

BTW: a certain company who is pushing out this so-called "vaccine" has been caught YET AGAIN playing around with the data. I'll leave you to work out who it might be and seek out the info. *WINK*

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@countessalmirena wrote:

I realise that you - or others - may still be sceptical or afraid or worried. I don’t believe in forcing people against their very deeply-held beliefs to be vaccinated; that is a difficult stance for me given that I also believe that when a highly communicable respiratory disease is causing a pandemic, it is staggeringly important to protect at-risk people by putting in place such restrictions or rules that will minimise the risk of those people suffering adverse outcomes. Don’t think that my view about protecting people at large is always comfortable; I weigh up risks, benefits, what rights are most important, and what the data shows us.

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I'm not "sceptical or afraid or worried" or motivated by my "very deeply-held beliefs " as you try to suggest. Nice try though!  I have thought at length about it and like Mr. Djokovic may have done, I have gone to the best info source. I'm talking about medical professionals with the highest of credentials. I did at one stage toss around in my mind if the jab was best for me. It wasn't and taking the best course of action through high value nutrition, eliminating as many toxins and improving my health is the right course.

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@countessalmirena wrote:

Are you more comfortable with Novavax?

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I've never taken any jab for any corona virus. Never needed to. I support the use of some vaccines as they can help. I don't believe that all are necessary though. I  wouldn't take Novavax.

I actually saw a comparison for infected patients being treated early with historically successful early stage drugs and jabbed patients with no early stage treatments.  No surprise what the findings where! Ha!  It just proved how incompetent the US medical system really is.

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@countessalmirena wrote:

Re Novak Djokovic, he’d wipe the floor with me when it comes to tennis. He wouldn’t do that in discussing science/medicine. I admire his tennis; I don’t admire his refusal to be vaccinated. I feel very much as though the whole Australian Tennis debacle with him smells fishy.

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Not sure what your qualifications are. I suspect you have had a little more education than the average person. But to be honest, the ball is on the path to win the game is you and he were to have a match with understanding certain aspects of this virus.  And "discussing science/medicine" with a higher degree in education doesn't always make a person more knowledgeable. 

Mr. Djokovic has committed an unforgivable crime of making an informed decision and sticking to his guns. His other crime is not having a knee-jerk reaction and falling into step-pace with others.  *SIGH*

I don't know why you  "don’t admire his refusal to be vaccinated"?  Jabbed folk spread the virus too!  There's no justification for medical apartheid just as much as there is none for racial or religious apartheid.