Bail ! Be Very Sure that it is given Deservedly !

[dave000fishing]

Bail ! Be Very Sure that it is given Deservedly !

So many years have passed since I have posted but in light of recent events I feel that I need to. The Madman that took Hostages etc should have not been out with the rest of us to start with if the Bail Laws were observed in the way that ordinary people would believe that they would be.

Firstly, In relation to the Martin Place Seige Nutter, This man orcherstrated sending vile messages to our War Widows ! ( In my opinion this sort of thing should be treated as Treason  with Life in Gaol as the penalty)

He has also been involved in Accessory to Murder and Multiple Sexual Abuse Allegations .

As I see it Magistrates thought better that he was out with US than inside where he obviously belonged. (Live with that to those that let him  out with us )

I firmly believe that this person was a Radical and not representative of normal peaceloving Muslims that are living with us and I am pleased to see the efforts that the Muslim Community has made to disassociate from this Lunatic and his beliefs and to be involved in the Vigils at Martin Place since the Seige.

It would be so easy for us to lash out at other Innocents because of a Madman but in the end that is not the right thing to do.

Like Everyone I am concerned about the radicallisation of some young Muslims but Hope / Want that the majority  sway the minority to intergrate and not listen to overseas propoganda.

We lost Two Heros, Thank God we lost no more !

[monman12]

I see D0F that you are the same!    However catharsis is good.

"The Madman that took Hostages etc should have not been out with the rest of us to start with if the Bail Laws were observed in the way that ordinary people would believe that they would be.

Firstly, In relation to the Martin Place Seige Nutter, This man orcherstrated sending vile messages to our War Widows ! ( In my opinion this sort of thing should be treated as Treason  with Life in Gaol as the penalty)"

You speak for  "ordinary people"? In my opinion they (as you describe them) would  form a judicial lynch mob without any thought as to the legal process e.g.   : "this sort of thing should be treated as Treason"    What nonsense.

"If the Bail Laws were observed"  They were, according to the "presumption in favour of bail", by ordinary NSW magistrates, and basically are:  "Under the current law, decisions about bail are made based on the offence a person has been charged with – not the risk they pose to the community."

However, new laws (proposed in 2012) will  come into effect on January 28, 2015; they include a revised test under which an accused person who is assessed as an "unacceptable risk" will be refused bail.

For serious offences, the onus will be on the accused to "show cause" why their detention in custody is not justified."

Thus new laws will finally take effect that might prevent a repeat of a  tragic incident like this,  it is a pity that the wheels of justice apropos amendments to NSW Bail Act were so tardy

nɥºɾ

[punch*drunk]

 "Under the current law, decisions about bail are made based on the offence a person has been charged with – not the risk they pose to the community."

Well thats just stupid, no wonder we have so many nutters walking the streets. Is that the same Australia wide?

[polksaladallie]

Reposted for rereading.

In the Sydney siege aftermath there has been criticism of the gunman being out on bail but that's 'very unfair' according to former NSW Director of Public Prosecutions Nicholas Cowdery.

NICHOLAS COWDERY: I think it's a perfectly reasonable question. And the answer to it must be that when each of the judicial officers who were dealing with him were presented with the information that was available, the evidence on which they had to act, they applied themselves according to the law and made judgments about whether or not it was appropriate to release him on bail.

I think it would be very unfair now, with the benefit of hindsight, if there was criticism of judicial officers or indeed of police who dealt with him in the past. Because I think you can be assured that in a case like that, which involved very serious charges, the people involved would've been dealing with it absolutely properly and appropriately.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4150095.htm

[aps1080]

Which brings me back to the post I posted i think yesterday.

For certain charges - murder, attempted murder, assist to murder, accessory to murder, rape - and I am sure a few others could be added, their should be mandatory no bail so that it is not left up to judges or good, manipulative lawyers.

Automatic go to jail and wait.

And as for based on the charge, not the danger to the public, stupid idea.

[***super_nova***]

---

@aps1080 wrote:

Which brings me back to the post I posted i think yesterday.

For certain charges - murder, attempted murder, assist to murder, accessory to murder, rape - and I am sure a few others could be added, their should be mandatory no bail so that it is not left up to judges or good, manipulative lawyers.

Automatic go to jail and wait.

And as for based on the charge, not the danger to the public, stupid idea.

---

Most people kill somebody for a reason or in fight that goes wrong, and some people may be charged but in the end found not guilty.  Most people only kill once, they do not pose danger to community.   I am surprised that "danger to community" was not considered in NSW, it is here in VIC  -  "Gangland widow Judy Moran is a danger to the community with easy access to guns and cannot be released on bail, a court has ruled."

I for one do not think that we should keep in jail every person accused of serious crime; who is going to pay for more jails?  I would rather see the money go for building more hospitals. 

[aps1080]

I didn't say serious crime, I was very specific in the use of murder.

I didn't say Fraud, Manslaughter, I used Murder for a reason.

Rape was included because of the violent nature and pre thought
that goes into it.

[***super_nova***]

---

@aps1080 wrote:

I didn't say serious crime, I was very specific in the use of murder.

I didn't say Fraud, Manslaughter, I used Murder for a reason.

Rape was included because of the violent nature and pre thought
that goes into it.

---

Yes, but WHY?  That would not likely done much about bail application for Man Haron Monis; his charge for "accessory to murder" was pretty shaky (apparently heaps of inconsistencies in witness statements) and the other charges were only just added, there was to be a hearing  about them.

Anyway, death threats to the judge who issued the bail are not going to help anybody.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/dec/19/man-haron-monis-lawyers-and-judges-receive-dea...

[dave000fishing]

TY for the welcome back, Katy, Channy's Mum & Debra.

My reason for coming back to post this Topic was that I think after the events at Martin Place and other atrocities that have been committed by people that should have not been walking our streets when they committed their crimes that the laws need to be tightened and someone like that Ratbag does not roam free to do whatever he wants.

If enough noise is made by Us the laws will change.

[aps1080]

Super

Why ?

Because these people are a danger to society.

He was charged, flaky or not, he was charged.

[polksaladallie]

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@dave000fishing wrote:

TY for the welcome back, Katy, Channy's Mum & Debra.

My reason for coming back to post this Topic was that I think after the events at Martin Place and other atrocities that have been committed by people that should have not been walking our streets when they committed their crimes that the laws need to be tightened and someone like that Ratbag does not roam free to do whatever he wants.

If enough noise is made by Us the laws will change.

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Making "noise" on a social forum will get squat.  If you are serious, you will lobby your local government members, and encourage others to do so.