Banging on and on about rights.......

[poddster]

......under what "right" are people paid to exist without doing anything for their payment.?

Is it just because they exist?

[curmu-curmu]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

Bella, I take my hat off to you. It would be a big commitment for you to help your kids do the best they can in life.

My wife is blind and recieves travel allowance and taxi vouchers to assist her to get around. We fully expect that our son may need to access welfare at times throughout his life due to serious mental health problems. Both your family members and mine are people that need a little bit of help from society. There are so many others that are also genuinly needing of support from the community through welfare.

I just feel if the obvious freeloaders where not taking money and services, genuine welfare recipients such as your children would recieve a much higher standard of service and probably a little bit more money, to allow them to live with a bit more dignity than the current payments allow. The stigma that welfare recipients often experience would be much less likely to happen, if it was only genuine people who where accesing the services. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there was not the social stigma towards welfare recipients in the small country town that I lived in, as virtually all welfare recipients where genuine and people just did not think about it.

Since moving to the area of high welfare dependance where many people are taking advantage of the system, welfare recipients in general do face social stigma and predjudice. 

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It's actually quite sad that a family with so many issues such as yours has fallen foul of those stigmas.

I agree, wholeheartedly, in that those with serious, chronic or mental health issues should not be tarred with the same brush as welfare rorters, but sadly, that's their lot. Society has a lot to answer for...

It's a stigma that we battled for many years, with minimal success within the job network, and the battle still rages today.

Both you and Bella are to be commended for the dedication you show to your family members. There are many with children, suffering from mental health conditions, who are content to fob them off daily to government agencies, to lessen their own responsibility, and to prevent their care routines impinging upon their parents' lives.

As my wife doesn't drive, and my MIL insist on living in her own house, several kms away, and refuses any external care, the logical thing was for me to surrender my $75,000 career, to enable me to assist her on a 24/7 basis. And no, I don't rely on any government handouts to do so. I just feel obligated, as she assisted us many years ago when we were in dire financial straits.

[j*oono]

The Gold Coast would have a pretty good night life.  They could be hotel workers, bar workers, casino (if there is one) holiday makers, shift workers, fly in fly out workers, and general  hospitality workers.

You are seeing the same faces and so do they.  I wonder what they think of you?

Mannerisms, behaviours and characteristics. Hahaha.  Yeh right.

[opmania]

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@curmu-curmu wrote:

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

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@curmu-curmu wrote:

 Gold Coast, and the preponderance of young, fit, tanned men and women, so obviously on welfare, is amazing.

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What is obvious about it?  They may be on holidays or they may be working at night.  You cannot just look at person on the street and decide just because they are tanned they must be on welfare.

I am not saying that there are not some people who are on dole there, but such a judgemental sweeping statement just astounds me.

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Whether it astounds you or not, I feel that after 30 years of dealing with the unemployed, I'm entitled, no - capable of, and qualified to,  make that statement!

Those that sit in their ivory towers, and profess to have known one or two unemployed during their lifetimes are NOT qualified to make such a statement, as their impression of the situation is just that. Their impression. Feelings don't produce statistics - facts do.

30 years dealing with just ONE demographic of society gives one a unique insight into their mannerisms, behaviours and characteristics.

Yes, many may well be on holidays, and it may be a coincidence that they are holidaying in the same area, the same time, twice a year when we also holiday there.

But to recognise faces time and time again, over a period of years, is something that has been ingrained into me over those years of dealing with professional welfare recipients, and to see those same faces each time we holiday there, well - I make no apology for what I've said.

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There are a lot of time share apartments on the gold coast and it is quite possible that the same people would be taking there holidays at exactly the same time every year

and the preponderance of tanned fit young men and women is hardly a description of a serial dole bludger, quite the oposite

[chameleon54]

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@bella_again wrote:

   I agree we need to have a conversion about how to address some of these issues to see the cycle of generational welfare broken.  I have lived in places that are possibly some of the worst in Australia for welfare dependancy and you know the common denominator is that most of them have no hope.  We have to address the issue of purpose by breaking down barriers and getting them into employment.

Nothing will be achieve though if we call everyone bludgers and give people a hard time because they can't access employment in which there are still about 580,000 odd jobs short.  You see you have to address that issue first.  Until that is achieved nothing is going to change and no one as of yet has come up with a solution there!

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The hope thing is so important. When our son was at his lowest point, he could not see any future for himself. ( and to be honest, we couldnt see much future besides welfare dependancy for life for him either. ) We have been working hard to provide him with some life choices. I own a small farming business and we have purchased a mob of 70 sheep and a few good older rams. They where in very poor condition and quite old, but it was all we could afford. We have given them the best of everything and they are now looking good. This is a foundation flock, the sheep and progeny of which our son can have to start a sheep business if he wants. This has inspired him to come out to the farm to help and learn new skills.

We have also encouraged our son to do a number of work experience weeks through the school. This has given him valuable work skills and some excellent references. He is registered for a TAFE traineeship course in shearing shed work later in the year. He has also applied for a job with a local computer company as a trainee technician. The owner has genuinly promised to consider him for a job when he is a little older, knowing the conditions our son has. He has also just got his first job at KFC and is keen to look at trainieships in food handling, catering etc. through KFC and his local school.

All of these things have given him renewed hope and a sense that he has a number of options for the future. He is happier, takes his medication diligently,( anti physcotics )  looks after himself a little more on the weekends , takes pride in his appearance and is generally much more pleasant to be around. As parents we now see that he may be able to make his own way in life although he will always be vulnerable to relapses. ( it happens with people with his conditions ) .

I must admit it has been very hard work and those young people who dont have this type of support are going to struggle. It may pay the Government to employ people to micro manage some of the vulnerable kids as it may be cheaper in the long run to set them up for success, rather than pay them welfare for ever. It would require practicle people with life skills and a bit of tough love , rather than uni grad, social workers who have often lived fairly sheltered, cloistered lives. I worked as a superviser for young adults who where doing court ordered community service for awhile. There where a number of suitable people in this field, so they are out there. 

[curmu-curmu]

Yup. Of course there are alternatives. A multitude of 'em.

Trouble is, until you've been in my shoes, and seen the things I've seen, your alternative theories are just that. Theories.

But hey - what would I know? Armchair experts are so much more well-versed in these matters!

[curmu-curmu]

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@j*oono wrote:

The Gold Coast would have a pretty good night life.  They could be hotel workers, bar workers, casino (if there is one) holiday makers, shift workers, fly in fly out workers, and general  hospitality workers.

You are seeing the same faces and so do they.  I wonder what they think of you?

Mannerisms, behaviours and characteristics. Hahaha.  Yeh right.

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Yep. Mannerisms, behaviours and characteristics. Far too complicated to discuss with opinionated armchair experts, so I won't.

Plus, it's quite sad that someone so well-versed in all manner of things, isn't aware of Jupiter's Casino. After all - they've only been there for the last 25 years!

Even those not from Australia know of Jupiters. Guess that's what happens when you don't fact check before posting!

[poddster]

Fact check???

Heaven forbid that facts get in the way of a good solid negative stance.

Bite your tongue on facts 🙂

[poddster]

And never, never, never involve logic it is almost forbidden here

[j*oono]

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@curmu-curmu wrote:

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@j*oono wrote:

The Gold Coast would have a pretty good night life.  They could be hotel workers, bar workers, casino (if there is one) holiday makers, shift workers, fly in fly out workers, and general  hospitality workers.

You are seeing the same faces and so do they.  I wonder what they think of you?

Mannerisms, behaviours and characteristics. Hahaha.  Yeh right.

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Yep. Mannerisms, behaviours and characteristics. Far too complicated to discuss with opinionated armchair experts, so I won't.

Plus, it's quite sad that someone so well-versed in all manner of things, isn't aware of Jupiter's Casino. After all - they've only been there for the last 25 years!

Even those not from Australia know of Jupiters. Guess that's what happens when you don't fact check before posting!

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I don't know Qld and I don't know how dole bludgers work the system and I'm not familiar with casinos.  Luckily you're an expert.

[poddster]

Well there you go J :)

You have admitted that there are areas that you are not familiar with and not only that but you have recognized and given credit to some one else for their expertise 🙂