Can you be Racist and a Good Person at the Same Time?

[the_bob_delusion]

Go.

[domino-710]

Too funny :

[domino-710]

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@rogevibe wrote:

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@icyfroth wrote:

Bette Midler apologises after mocking Melania Trump's accent

Hollywood icon Bette Midler has apologised after mocking Melania Trump's accent during her speech on the second night of the Republican National Convention.

"oh God, she still can't speak English"

"a UGE bore! She can speak a few words in several languages. Get that illegal alien off the stage!"

View video here

Is Bette Midler a bad person for making those racist remarks?

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 Only if the speaker could be understood - but even still arguably a matter of bigorty rather than racism

However the expectation in Amarica might be speaking with a mid-atlantic accent , like in the movies  ....

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Good grief - you have watched ' High Society ' - the Hepburn version. 

[springyzone]

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@not_for_sale2025 wrote:

The use and abuse of the term "racist" for good or bad is rampant, and a lot of people are too frightened to open their mouth for fear of being accused of discrimination. Meanwhile, the true and dangerous racists are laughing their heads off because they barely stand out anymore - arguably, everyone is a racist. And BTW, I have never known one truly "good" person in my life; and I have been around for a while.

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Now this proves that the definition of 'good' is a bit fluid.

Good doesn't have to mean perfect.

I've known heaps and heaps of good people. And a few extremely good people. If there is a heaven, they are going there express service.

But maybe my standards of judging goodness are lower than yours.

I'd say there are quite a few good, hard working, sincere people on this forum.

[not_for_sale2025]

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@springyzone wrote:

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@not_for_sale2025 wrote:

The use and abuse of the term "racist" for good or bad is rampant, and a lot of people are too frightened to open their mouth for fear of being accused of discrimination. Meanwhile, the true and dangerous racists are laughing their heads off because they barely stand out anymore - arguably, everyone is a racist. And BTW, I have never known one truly "good" person in my life; and I have been around for a while.

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Now this proves that the definition of 'good' is a bit fluid.

Good doesn't have to mean perfect.

I've known heaps and heaps of good people. And a few extremely good people. If there is a heaven, they are going there express service.

But maybe my standards of judging goodness are lower than yours.

I'd say there are quite a few good, hard working, sincere people on this forum.

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I doubt our standards are too different. But in the context of this thread topic, good and bad seem to be rather black and white (no pun intended). I don't think people who claim to be non-racists have the exclusive rights to goodness and that people whom they judge to be racists are necessarily bad. The suggestion almost demands a test of credibility. We have all made mistakes, have flaws, and secretly conceal some of those flaws.

When considering goodness to that depth, I have never known a person who will automatically walk through the pearly gates. IMO there is a difference between being a basically good person and a truly good person. In some cases there is a need to accept one's imperfections without judgement, especially if the individual is basically a good person. It seems to me that we are going through an era of social judgement, but at the expense of human consideration and understanding.

[*kazumi*]

Interesting how people define racism.  For me racist is a person who believes they, and people from the same race, are genetically superior, and to support their claim point out their culture.   

Considering that large number of the racists are uneducated ignorant twits, it really would be hysterically funny if it was not so serious with fascist racist organizations popping up all of the world.  
When you look at kids in Africa, growing up in mud hut villages, walking miles to school and are lucky to have enough paper and pencils, who then manage to get scholarships to to world's most prestigious universities and graduate.  We are freaking out that our kids are missing out on education if they have to be schooled on line.... 

[springyzone]

I'd say a lot of people may be more ethnocentric rather than racist as such. To me there is a subtle difference.

In our culture, for example, it is considered by some to be bad form to notice any difference between humans, whether that be race, nationality, sex, build, values etc.  You're in danger of being laelled as abhorrent if you do.

Some extreme racist behaviour is abhorrent to me but like everything else, I think there are degrees, with some cases worse than others and some cases where it isn't racist at all to mention or discuss differences.

Forget the genetically superior bit for a moment. Fact is, genetically, people all over the world are incredibly similar.

So forget that bit. But an interesting question would be-are some cultures superior or more advantageous as a whole? The pervading culture of a society can change quite a bit over time. In fact I would say it is constantly changing. I don't think all cultures are even, and that is the sticking point because a lot of people (I think) confuse a cultural judgement with a genetic judgement.

[not_for_sale2025]

A problem as I see it, is that the average person has become caught up in the current "racist" bombardment. I watched a show a few nights ago on "The death of the Aussie larrikin". They questioned whether political correctness has killed the Aussie spirit and investigated the impact of social media outrage on Australian culture and society. It very much focused on the Paul Hogan show during the 70's and 80's.

Hogan, Strop and Delvene Delaney made many of us laugh for 12 seasons with their ocker humour. Yet today they and we would be regarded as racists if it aired and we watched it. Woe behold if we laughed. Why is this, what has happened and is it a good or bad thing?

Personally, I think some accusations of racism come from people who take the moral high ground to attack others because they can. Others join in without question because they think it is the right thing to do. Once upon a time we could laugh at ourselves and each other without fear or judgement because we understood the intent was not from a racist perspective. But today it's, 'you can't say that', 'you shouldn't say that', or 'that's racist'. According to who? The social media trolls?

I think the Aussie larrikin is dead. But are we better or worse for it and do we regret the loss? I'm sure many individuals think we are better people now because we've learned about political correctness, have paid attention to the social media and know what and what not to say. But I'm not sure we were horrible racists in the 70's and 80's because we laughed at Paul Hogan.

[icyfroth]

And I mean, really.

The PC's would have you think calling a black or brown or asian  person "black" or brown, or asian is somehow an insult.

Ever stop to think black, brown, asian  people might be proud of their ethnicity?

PC's might say..."oh,  when I see people, I don't see colour, I just see people"?

I see that as an insult to black people. As if "black" is a negative.

Ever think black or brown or asian ppl aren't proud of their ethnicity and don't necessarily want to be lumped in with the whiteys?

[springyzone]

I think of colours as simply descriptive terms but it depends on context I suppose, how a person uses the term.

I can recall years back a child at school had to point out another child. Forget exactly what for, maybe the child had been hurt as we were on yard duty. But another teacher asked where the child was and the boy replied, 'It's that black dude over there."

Now, the boy reporting  to us was a dark brown colour himself. He wasn't using 'black' as a put  down, simply as a description for quick identification. No harm meant in it at all.

Not for sale was talking TV programs. I remember Basil Fawlty, who was about as politically incorrect as you can get. I don't think people laughed at him because they agreed with his views, I think he was sort of demonstrating how absurb he was.

[*tippy*toes*]

What I find sad is that people can get offended on your behalf, even if you aren't offended. 

I have worked with one of my colleagues for 15 years. She was born here. Her mother is Australian, and was born here. Her father is Italian, who moved here as a youngster, probably teens in the 50s. We hit it off from day 1. I call her LFW (little fat wog), or wog **bleep**, she calls me white trash. Although lately she calls me barge **bleep**, or fat **bleep**, after significant weight gain over the last 3 years. We constantly tell each other how fat the other one is getting.

People are used to us putting shyt on each other. No one bats an eyelid.........until a new PC staff member turns up. Is mortally horrified at this disgusting and blatant racism. We have been reported and had closed door meetings. 

We are both capable of telling each other to pull our head in if things do get out of hand and one of us crosses the line, but that is very rare. Yet, some upstart can waltz on in and threaten our relationship, because THEY are offended on our behalf. 

I guess these upstarts should consider themselves lucky they weren't there when a retired colleague was still there. For reasons unknown to pretty much everyone, he could get away with sexual harrassment. It was all very innocent, and if you didn't get things thrown at you, you'd actually be offended. It was never in private, it was always in front of the other staff, so it wasn't a seedy hidden thing.

A couple of years ago, he was there for a meeting of some description (despite being retired). I got out of the elevator and not seeing him for over 3 years, went to say hi. He looked at me and said "gee Tippy, you're t*ts are getting big!" With that, he got a big hug and I went on my merry way. He wasn't a dirty old man, he just liked having some fun. His wife knew what went on and knew it was innocent. If he was still there now, he'd be arrested, because pretty much everyone would be offended by his behaviour, even though we weren't.

Then there's the constant bickering with the Asians. All except one are short. So, its this constant battle about Asian height, versus Australian height as far as where to put equipment and electrical booms. It's too high for them and they cant reach. It's too low for me and I keep bashing my head (I'm only 5'6"!). One weekend it was me and 4 Asians working. One bought in their bike helmet so I couldn't bash my head due to everything being "Asian height".

There were upstarts that got offended with that and thought it was ME being racist (because we all know only white people can be racist). It has been a long standing joke and I thought the helmet was great! No one was offended except for these deadsh*ts, who fall into the chronically outraged category.

So, there was only one thing for it. The Aussies, the wogs, the Indians, the black Africans and the Asians (could have been some Middle East too), ganged up on them until we could prove that unless the actual person is offended by something, stay the hell out of our business.