Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process

A Coalition government will harshen its stance against asylum seekers even further, denying those who arrive by boat the right to free government advice and help with lodging appeals.

                           

The Coalition's scrapping of taxpayer-funded assistance for asylum seekers, to be announced on Saturday by opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison, will save the budget about $100 million over the next four years.

 

Even under the harsh border protection policies of former prime minister John Howard, such protections existed for asylum seekers, but Mr Morrison said they had gotten ''out of hand'' with the ''deluge of boats'' under Labor.

       

An Abbott government would not prevent refugee advocates from giving free legal advice to asylum seekers, but taxpayers would no longer be paying for it, Mr Morrison said.

       

''This level of support is not provided to those who currently legally arrive in Australia,'' Mr Morrison said. ''They have to pay for it themselves.''

 

Click Here To Read Whole Article

 

Oooh Waaah!

 

That's going to put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Message 1 of 107
Latest reply
106 REPLIES 106

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process

To fall in love and start family is a basic human right, and the conflicts in countries of origin are not likely to be sorted in few years, if ever.  Iraq is not going to be safe  anywhere in foreseeable future, Afghanistan is very likely never to be safe for the Hazaras, Syria is only in the start of a major disaster.  To say go back and apply from your country of origin by the "proper" channels is just ludicrous, there are not "proper" channels from most of these countries.  Australia does not even have consular services in many countries in Europe, and we definitely do not have them in every country in Africa or middle east.

Talking about how expensive it is; it would be lot cheaper if people were not kept off-shore and  in prison like accomodation, and if they were processed faster and released to community ASAP.  Once they get jobs they do not cost, on the contrary they pay taxes.

000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Voltaire: “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” .
Message 51 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process


@crikey*mate wrote:

@izabsmiling wrote:

It isn't my problem how we pay for it.


I thought that the above was worth repeating. ^^^^^

 

The rest of that post is incoherent and unstructured. You need to be clear in enunciating what you are talking about, not mash together vague generalizations in the hope that you will convince someone that your opinion is informed.


If Tony Abbott is coming up with solutions to help HIM stop the boats.They need to be Law Abiding solutions don't they ? If not they are worthless  ....

before anything else such as cost is even considered.

Perhaps we are all supposed to accept his solutions and promises as doable without questioning them .I won't do that...sorry .Lives depend on this.

 

 

 

So much emotion used to demonise Asylum seekers ...that the big sell "I will stop the boats" seems to be the be all and end all and I think there is too much importance and negativity placed on that issue that people are all too ready to believe that the claim is achievable without questioning ...how ? 

I don't believe that he can...anymore than I believe that he can stop the wars .

 

I do know how much emotional garbage ,we the Australian people have been fed in recent years.

and Tony Abbott now wants to say that it's not a popularity contest ? LOL

 

 

 

 

Perhaps ..Barnaby Joyce,wanna be Deputy PM  preferencing One Nation may be a hand shake (to ease past problems) and a sign of things to come ?

Message 52 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process


@crikey*mate wrote:

 

The rest of that post is incoherent and unstructured. You need to be clear in enunciating what you are talking about, not mash together vague generalizations in the hope that you will convince someone that your opinion is informed.


and no ...no one needs  to do anything you tell them they need to do Smiley Happy

Message 53 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process

Iza, what do you propose as a solution to end people smugging trade? 

Message 54 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process


@izabsmiling wrote:

@crikey*mate wrote:

@izabsmiling wrote:

It isn't my problem how we pay for it.


I thought that the above was worth repeating. ^^^^^

 

The rest of that post is incoherent and unstructured. You need to be clear in enunciating what you are talking about, not mash together vague generalizations in the hope that you will convince someone that your opinion is informed.


If Tony Abbott is coming up with solutions to help HIM stop the boats.They need to be Law Abiding solutions don't they ? If not they are worthless  ....

before anything else such as cost is even considered.

Perhaps we are all supposed to accept his solutions and promises as doable without questioning them .I won't do that...sorry .Lives depend on this.

 

 

 

So much emotion used to demonise Asylum seekers ...that the big sell "I will stop the boats" seems to be the be all and end all and I think there is too much importance and negativity placed on that issue that people are all too ready to believe that the claim is achievable without questioning ...how ? 

I don't believe that he can...anymore than I believe that he can stop the wars .

 

I do know how much emotional garbage ,we the Australian people have been fed in recent years.

and Tony Abbott now wants to say that it's not a popularity contest ? LOL

 

 

 

 

Perhaps ..Barnaby Joyce,wanna be Deputy PM  preferencing One Nation may be a hand shake (to ease past problems) and a sign of things to come ?


Your priorities are skewed and highlight your lack of understanding and knowledge.

 

Economics and cost are the first things that need to be considered. Once the economic status is clarified, it is then that solutions are posited within those boundaries. Treaties are entered into and Laws are made at a single point in time, taking into consideration what is possible then. As society and its needs change and evolve, so do our laws. our laws are continually changing and evolving to suit the climate in the present, not the climate from  five or ten years ago.

 

You are correct, lives do depend on the policies of our leaders. Therefore it is imperative that our leaders ensure and plan for a sustainable future for our country. That's what our leaders are "supposed to do".

 

Our country MUST remain economically strong or it will be the members of our country who will be seeking assylum and Australia will be unable to provide safety for anyone.

 

The policy is not denying the right to seek assylum, it is reducing the parameters under which it may happen in a response to our economic position at this time.

 

We just can't help everybody nor can we save everybody and that's not what we signed up to do anyway. By strategic management we can increase the amount of people that we can effectively help and provide safety for whilst ensuring long term sustainability so that we can continue to help at least some people in the future.

 

If we disregard the present cilmate and the economics involved then our long term ability to help anybody to any degree will be terminated. We have to adjust to the situation as it is now. Sometimes decisions that seem harsh have to be made to ensure the long term greater good for the majority.

 

 

The thing about which I am most curious though is that a few posts back you wrote "it is not my problem how we pay for it" but then follow that up with "how is the claim achievable?" (sic).

 

Why the two different stances?

 

Mr Abbott has put forth his explanation of how he believes "he" is going to achieve it. He has put forth "his" solution, the solution that he believes is available to him after examining "how he is going to pay for "it"".

 

By "it" I am not referring solely to the Assylum Seekers. I am referring to the bigger picture, the overarching responsibility of the leaders of our country. I am referring to "how is "he" going to pay for the avenues that "he" believes will lead our country into long term sustainability."


Some people can go their whole lives and never really live for a single minute.
Message 55 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process


@izabsmiling wrote:

@crikey*mate wrote:

 

The rest of that post is incoherent and unstructured. You need to be clear in enunciating what you are talking about, not mash together vague generalizations in the hope that you will convince someone that your opinion is informed.


and no ...no one needs  to do anything you tell them they need to do Smiley Happy


Well then, don't ask me questions.

 

I cannot answer if I cannot make sense of what you write.


Some people can go their whole lives and never really live for a single minute.
Message 56 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process

In case you missed it. 

Australia is not suffering a budget emergency.

Our debt is not huge. The current government is investing for the future in health, education, infrastructure. 

 

As you love to blame the "poor" for being bad managers, why don't you do some actual research about poverty before sticking the boot in? Your comparison between rich and poor is simplistic and arrogant.

 

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21584343-kevin-rudd-just-about-deserves-second-turn-lucky-no-m...

 

EXCEPTIONALLY among rich-world economies, Australia is now enjoying its 22nd year of uninterrupted growth. Much of the lucky country’s recent prosperity came easily—from shipping coal and iron ore, Australia’s two biggest exports, to China, its biggest market. But now that the Chinese boom is fading and commodity prices are slumping, that luck may be on the turn.

This backdrop makes the election on September 7th critical. Australia needs a government that can take difficult decisions when forecasts of budget surpluses are turning into deficits, and a bit of inspired leadership to help it face a trickier future. The choice for voters, frankly, is not great.

 

Daggy Abbott and rude Rudd

Of the country’s two main parties, the Liberal Party, now in opposition in a Liberal-National coalition, is the natural home ofThe Economist’s vote: a centre-right party with a tradition of being pro-business and against big government. But the coalition’s leader, Tony Abbott, does not seem an instinctive fan of markets, and one of the few key policies he has let on to possessing is a hugely expensive federal scheme for parental leave. That may help him persuade women voters that charges of misogyny are unfair, but he has not properly explained how he intends to pay for it (see article). His social conservatism does not appeal to us: he opposes gay marriage and supports populist measures against Afghans, Sri Lankans, Vietnamese and others who have attempted to get from Indonesia into Australia in rickety craft that have drowned thousands in recent years. Indeed his promise to “turn back the boats” seems to be his only foreign policy.

 

The argument for the protean Mr Abbott is that he might change yet again—and prove more pragmatic in office. He has certainly waged a disciplined campaign, helped by the strident support of Rupert Murdoch’s newspapers, and is ahead in the polls. But to switch to Mr Abbott requires a leap of faith. So how bad has the Labor Party been?

The main mark against Labor’s policy card is that it has shifted a long way towards Mr Abbott’s position on asylum-seekers. Aside from that, it has a reasonable record. It has loosened its traditional ties to the trade unions and promoted growth and enterprise. It has managed the economy well while introducing popular social programmes, including an insurance scheme for disabled people, reforms to schools aimed at raising teaching standards and a high-speed fibre-optic network that is now being laid out across the vast country. It put a price on carbon emissions by introducing a carbon tax in July 2012. Given that Australia is both the world’s biggest coal exporter and heavily reliant on coal for its electricity, this is a laudable achievement. Mr Abbott, once a climate-change denier, vows to scrap the tax (as well as cut spending on Labor’s schools and broadband projects).

The trouble with Labor is twofold. Its internecine strife makes the Chinese Communist Party look harmonious—warfare within its ranks has undermined Labor’s governance during its six years in office—and there are questions over the character of its mercurial leader, Kevin Rudd.

 

The two are connected. After leading Labor to a landslide victory in 2007, Mr Rudd was suddenly defenestrated by his deputy prime minister, Julia Gillard, in 2010. Though still popular among voters, he had forfeited the trust of his colleagues through his contemptuous treatment of them, his meddling and his indecisiveness. Ms Gillard’s legislative record was better than Mr Rudd’s (she introduced the carbon tax), but the party barons ousted her this year and reinstalled Mr Rudd, in the hope that he could work his old magic with voters.

 

The choice between a man with a defective manifesto and one with a defective personality is not appealing—but Mr Rudd gets our vote, largely because of Labor’s decent record. With deficits approaching, his numbers look more likely to add up than Mr Abbott’s. Despite his high-handed style, Mr Rudd is a Blairite centrist. A strategic thinker about Asia, he has skills that will be useful, especially as Australia has to balance its economic dependence on China with its security dependence on America. It would be nice if he revived his liberal approach to asylum-seekers. And, who knows, he may even live up to his promise to be less vile to his colleagues.

 

Message 57 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process

Meep - not much time to respond but here are the stats for the asylum applications. If we were to assume that 99% are granted refugee status (regardless of how they arrive in the country)  then those figures won't change much to those granted refugee status. Should also point out that the figures are a little rubbery - eg. if you arrived by boat pre 2009, you were taken straight to Nauru. Then you were flown into Australia. So you would be recorded as an air arrival rather than a boat arrival.

 

Onshore asylum applications

 

Program year

Non-IMA (air arrival) Protection visa (PV) applications lodged

 

IMA (Irregular Maritime Arrival) refugee status determination requests received

Total

 

No

Per cent of total applications

No

Per cent of total applications

 

2001-02

7026

76.0

2222

24.0

9248

2002-03

4959

98.8

60

1.2

5019

2003-04

3485

97.6

87

2.4

3572

2004-05

3062

95.4

146

4.6

3208

2005-06

3191

96.9

101

3.1

3292

2006-07

3723

99.4

23

0.6

3746

2007-08

3986

99.5

21

0.5

4007

2008-09

5072

88.0

690

12.0

5762

2009-10

5987

56.6

4591

43.4

10578

2010-11

6316

55.0

5175

45.0

11491

2011–12

7036

48.8

7379

51.2

14415

 

Sources: DIAC, Asylum Trends Australia 2010-11 Annual Publication, Canberra, 2011, p. 2; and Asylum statistics–Australia, Quarterly tables, September quarter 2012, Canberra, 2012.

Message 58 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process


@crikey*mate wrote:

@izabsmiling wrote:

@crikey*mate wrote:

 

The rest of that post is incoherent and unstructured. You need to be clear in enunciating what you are talking about, not mash together vague generalizations in the hope that you will convince someone that your opinion is informed.


and no ...no one needs  to do anything you tell them they need to do Smiley Happy


Well then, don't ask me questions.

 

I cannot answer if I cannot make sense of what you write.


I didn't actually ask you a question in that post  .My post was a post on these boards not member specific/limited and actually a reply to Martini's post.

 

the rest of that post of mine which you couldn't understand was this:

 

I just know that someone on a discussion board saying pfft to  the Human Rights Act doesn't negate it especially where the actions of our Government is concerned.They must consider it ...to negate something our Government has signed up to abide by ..there are steps they may need to take first.

The emotion is being used and employed where those things are ignored.

I would expect some to see the legalities more so than I do.

 

 

 

I'm sorry that you had trouble with it.The good thing about these boards is that we are all equal,education level,profession,employment status,ability/disabilty, illness/health,gender,sexual preferences,property ownership or lack of,money in the bank and/or that of our parents,our religion,our race,culture,political views etc etc ....are all equal ..as are we  Smiley Happy

Message 59 of 107
Latest reply

Re: Coalition to Deny Asylum Seekers Government Help to Navigate Migration Process


@freakiness wrote:

In case you missed it. 

Australia is not suffering a budget emergency.

Our debt is not huge. The current government is investing for the future in health, education, infrastructure. 

 

As you love to blame the "poor" for being bad managers, why don't you do some actual research about poverty before sticking the boot in? Your comparison between rich and poor is simplistic and arrogant.

 




I'm not sure what point you are trying to make saying that "Australia is not suffering a budget emergency".

 

As for "our debt is not huge"  - yikes!~

 

It has very little to do with the level of debt. What is important is how we are going to pay for it.

 

The current government may be investing in our future, but someone has to make sure the future is still there to invest in, eh?

 

Regardless, my comments are not of a biased political nature so I am not sure why you need to direct political hostility towards me. The facts remain the same no matter whose policy it is. My comments pertain to the policy and the economics surrounding it.

 

As for the rich and poor analogy, you have clearly misinterpreted my intention. My intention was to highlight why Australia needs to ensure a strong and sustainable economy. If our economy falters, then we become weak and susceptible to the whims of other countries. The stronger and more sustainable that we are, the greater our chances are of becoming independent and non reliant on support from other countries. The stronger and more sustainable that we are, the less chance there is of other countries gaining power over us.

 

Whilstever we are in debt to somebody, they have power over us. Whilstever we are in debt to somebody we are poor and until we get out of debt, we will remain poor which will significantly impact on our global power and sustainability of our nation.

 

 

Just to make it a little bit political - whilst I appreciate the need to plan ahead and implement strategies to benefit our future. It is careless to do so in a manner under which we cannot afford to do so and jeopardizes the very future for which they are planning.

 

Planning for the future is a wonderful thing, if you can afford to do so. The basic principle for all is to live within your means. If that future is to be realized, then it is up to whatever leaders we have in the present to implement strategies in order to ensure that we do have a future to plan for.

 

 


Some people can go their whole lives and never really live for a single minute.
Message 60 of 107
Latest reply