on 31-08-2013 02:29 PM
A Coalition government will harshen its stance against asylum seekers even further, denying those who arrive by boat the right to free government advice and help with lodging appeals.
The Coalition's scrapping of taxpayer-funded assistance for asylum seekers, to be announced on Saturday by opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison, will save the budget about $100 million over the next four years.
Even under the harsh border protection policies of former prime minister John Howard, such protections existed for asylum seekers, but Mr Morrison said they had gotten ''out of hand'' with the ''deluge of boats'' under Labor.
An Abbott government would not prevent refugee advocates from giving free legal advice to asylum seekers, but taxpayers would no longer be paying for it, Mr Morrison said.
''This level of support is not provided to those who currently legally arrive in Australia,'' Mr Morrison said. ''They have to pay for it themselves.''
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Oooh Waaah!
That's going to put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Solved! Go to Solution.
on 01-09-2013 07:33 PM
Yeah, I wish that someone would explain how they are illegal. I don't understand that part. It is not illegal to seek assylum in Australia even if arriving by boat.
It refers to entry without authorisation ie entering a country illegally as per Article 31 of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees - Illegal Entry.
According to the guidelines, from what I remember, asylum seekers should not be referred to as "illegals". Describing their actions ie entering a country illegally, is acceptable and appropriate if the entry is without authorisation.
on 01-09-2013 07:38 PM
Re migrants - i think the 2011/12 migrant intake was approx 185,000. Is that a lot? Not enough?
(it does not include the humanitarian intake)
01-09-2013 07:46 PM - edited 01-09-2013 07:47 PM
If the people arriving by boat are seeking assylum, then I don't understand why they are classified as illegal. I do wish that someone would explain that.
It's a simple, and proven method of taking power and keeping power:
1 )Tap into the public's fears and insecurities.
2) Encourage them to feel threatened and angry,
3) Give them a scapegoat on whom to vent that anger,
4) Then set yourself up as the saviour who is going to rid them of the threat make them safe again.
01-09-2013 07:55 PM - edited 01-09-2013 07:56 PM
@**meep** wrote:Yeah, I wish that someone would explain how they are illegal. I don't understand that part. It is not illegal to seek assylum in Australia even if arriving by boat.
It refers to entry without authorisation ie entering a country illegally as per Article 31 of the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees - Illegal Entry.
According to the guidelines, from what I remember, asylum seekers should not be referred to as "illegals". Describing their actions ie entering a country illegally, is acceptable and appropriate if the entry is without authorisation.
Use of term 'illegal' is ignorant or mischievous
While the Coalition may have hoped to score political points with the reappearance of its "illegal boats" billboard this week, it has shone a spotlight on its feeble grasp of international law. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott is wrong to say that the Refugee Convention says asylum seekers are "illegal".
It is true that the treaty uses the term "illegal", but the reason for doing so is to recognise that no matter what domestic law says, asylum seekers are not illegal under international law. By ratifying the Refugee Convention, governments agree precisely not to treat asylum seekers as illegal.
Under international law, people have a right to seek asylum from persecution and other serious human rights abuses. In turn, governments have an obligation not to send them to territories where they face a real chance of harm.
on 01-09-2013 08:26 PM
When and where did Tony Abbott say Refugee Convention says asylum seekers are illegal?
on 01-09-2013 08:30 PM
Meep, the info is out there ..but here one example
Tony Abbott compares asylum seekers to drug runners.
On April 27, 2012, Tony Abbott gave an speech at the Institute of Public Affairs.
During the speech, Tony Abbott stated the following:
Within a week of taking office, I would go to Indonesia to renew our cooperation against people smuggling. I would, of course, politely explain to the Indonesian government that we take as dim a view of Indonesian boats disgorging illegal arrivals in Australia as they take of Australians importing drugs into Bali.
on 01-09-2013 08:47 PM
@izabsmiling wrote:Meep, the info is out there ..but here one example
Tony Abbott compares asylum seekers to drug runners.
On April 27, 2012, Tony Abbott gave an speech at the Institute of Public Affairs.
During the speech, Tony Abbott stated the following:
Within a week of taking office, I would go to Indonesia to renew our cooperation against people smuggling. I would, of course, politely explain to the Indonesian government that we take as dim a view of Indonesian boats disgorging illegal arrivals in Australia as they take of Australians importing drugs into Bali.
Iza, where is the info? Where and when did Tony Abbott that?
In the above, Tony Abbott did not compare asylum seekers to drug runners. He was talking about the seriousness of the situation.
It has nothing to do with what I actually asked.
on 01-09-2013 09:39 PM
@crikey*mate wrote:
@freakiness wrote:
@paintsew007 wrote:I am sick to death of TA's MANTRA......"we will stop the 'boawts'....".
The 'boawts' are not the main problem to be addressed.
He sure likes to add the w to words 😄
That's because the words WIN, WINNING and WINNER starts with a W.....
Well No, he adds it to the other end of his words.
01-09-2013 09:41 PM - edited 01-09-2013 09:41 PM
@**meep** wrote:
@paintsew007 wrote:I am sick to death of TA's MANTRA......"we will stop the 'boawts'....".
The 'boawts' are not the main problem to be addressed.
You'd think it was the main problem, judging by the number of people focusing on it.
In every speech that I have heard, border security was not the first topic he addressed.
It has been his major focus until the past few weeks. He has been ovder stating the problem for years.
on 01-09-2013 10:03 PM
This whole "illegal" mantra has been on my mind (obviously)
I've just been out to dinner with some academics, and it was explained to me like this: (I'll try and communicate coherently, but I'm still getting my head around it all, so it may come out a bit disjointed)
The term illegal is an overarching one. It is understood that not all those seeking assylum are illegal, however, just like in any entity there are people who do take advantage of the loopholes.
By this I mean that there are people who are genuinely and quite literally fleeing for their lives. It is these people who are the genuine assylum seekers, regardless of how they get here. But then you have other people who take advantage of that and whilst their lives may not be ideal, they are not in mortal danger per se, but to find a better life than what they have, they immitate the conditions of a true assylum seeker to gain access to Australia.
It is this breed of "assylum seeker" to whom the term illegal refers. ie, they are not genuinely in danger, but they pretend to be,
I never understood that distinction before today.
Unfortunately, it is a case of a few "bad people" make it necessary to remove the benefits for all, even the genuine ones (as it is otherwise difficult to work out the genuine from the pretenders.)
So, to stop the pretenders, it is necessary to prevent everyone from benefiting.
Assylum is for those who are genuinely in need of safety. Assylum is not for those living in safe, but substandard living conditions in say a refugee camp or an otherwise oppressive environment. Assylum is not intended for those who just want a better life.
Whilstever these people with less than honest motives are able to gain access to Australia, they will come. To stop these people, the real illegals, it is necessary to stop everyone from coming. It is necessary to let them know, that if they turn up here, they will not be allowed in, they will not be able to avail themselves to appeal after appeal on the government's dollar whilst marking time until they get the key to their new life.
If they are genuinely seeking assylum, their interest is solely safety, so they don't care where they are as long as they are safe. Therefore, by stopping the boats and sending them elsewhere and limiting their legal access, in theory only those truly in a desperate life threatening situation will come by that method.
If there are fewer people coming, it frees up resources to make more indepth investigations into their circumstances and should remove the need for appeals as the right decision should be reached the first time. Of course, there will be some errors, but unfortunately, that is one of the chances that people will have to take simply because a few bad seeds have ruined it for those in genuine need.
We do not have the resources to help everybody. That is unfortunate, but we can help some, and that is better than none, eh? Yes we signed Treaties and International Coinventions, but we did not do so committing to help every person, nor did we do so if the committment was to the detriment of our own society.
It's just like when we donate to Charities. There are so many Charities, so many worthy causes, so many people that need help. But we only have so much money, so we just donate to those charities that we can.
Anyways, hopefully over the next few days that will all settle in my brain so I can join the dots a little better, at least for myself.