on โ27-12-2013 09:14 AM
An interesting piece that debunks all the hysteria around Tax Or Direct Action by someone who knows about it rather than those with a political agenda to push.
Direct action may succeed where tax fails
TWO years ago, in my book Clean Energy, Climate and Carbon, I posed the question: "Will putting a price on carbon drive deployment of clean energy technologies?
My answer then was: "Probably no, unless the price is much higher than that proposed by Australia or by most other countries."
Two years on, the experience in Australia, Europe and North America has reinforced that view.In Europe, the emissions trading scheme provided some companies with the opportunity to use their allocation of free carbon credits to profit by carbon gaming and might have resulted in a modest level of uptake of gas in lieu of coal, but there is no evidence that it has produced any significant decrease in emissions.
In Australia, any decrease in emissions because of wind and solar has had nothing whatsoever to do with a carbon tax and everything to do with the renewable energy target scheme.
Although the National Greenhouse and Energy Report for 2012-13 has yet to be released, recent statements suggest that any decrease in emissions attributable to the carbon tax is minute, but it will be interesting to see the actual data.
In the US, there has been a significant drop in emissions, not because of a price on carbon, for there is no nationwide price on carbon (there are some state schemes), but because of a decrease in manufacturing activity and particularly because of the widespread switch from coal to cleaner and cheaper shale gas: a good example of how a new technology can decrease emissions.
Those with an unshakeable faith in the market will still claim that a price on carbon is the most effective way of developing and deploying clean energy technologies.
The flaw in that philosophy is that for a market to work, there has to be real choice and a clear basis for making that choice now.
But there is no level playing field for determining the real cost of many existing, let alone future, technologies, for many quoted costs are distorted by subsidies, regulations or mandated targets focused on particular technologies.
The excellent 2011 report of the Productivity Commission on Carbon Emission Policies in Key Economies is one of the few studies that does attempt to get at the real cost of a range of technologies.
The costs of some quite widely deployed technologies, such as solar, are staggeringly high and certainly far more than any carbon price.
The future cost of clean energy technologies still under development but crucial to decreasing emissions is, of course, even more uncertain, which is why research is needed.
But a price on carbon, whether a carbon tax or an ETS, does not encourage the long-term R&D needed to take forward some of the critical large-scale mitigation options, such as geothermal or solar thermal or carbon capture and storage.
A price on carbon or a carbon tax could be used to directly support the research needed to develop and deploy emission-reducing technologies, and that would perhaps provide a stronger case for a carbon price. But the reality is that no such linkage was established under Labor's carbon pollution reduction scheme, which was targeted at broader budgetary issues and at social engineering rather than what its target should have been, namely clean energy engineering.
Without a clear and strong policy linking a carbon price to clean energy technology development, there is no meaningful emission-reduction policy, just another speculative market in the case of an ETS or just another tax.
It could be argued that an ETS could, of course, provide scope for purchasing cheap overseas carbon credits.
Many of the players who brought you the global financial crisis would be happy to assist, no doubt using ever more exotic and complex financial instruments, this time based not on real estate but on carbon.
A price on carbon does not and will not reduce emissions until some of the key technologies are further advanced and fully costed, and until the carbon price is much higher than any government is willing to contemplate at present.
That leads us to the alternative of direct action.
Critics will argue that there is no clear definition of what direct action involves, and that may be so. But there is a different view, namely that this present lack of definition provides the opportunity to help to define what it should be. In fact direct action has been in place for several years in Australia and other countries.
For example, having a renewable energy target clearly constitutes direct action that has directly encouraged (and, in effect, subsidised) the uptake of particular technologies, primarily wind and solar.
So what would be needed to make a success of direct action?
In summary, getting rid of the carbon tax is the right thing to do at this time.
It has proved ineffective as a mechanism for decreasing emissions.
Direct action may well be more effective.
Peter J. Cook is a professorial fellow at the University of Melbourne. He is a former chief executive of the Co-operative Research Centre for Greenhouse Gas Technologies and an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change co-ordinating lead author.
on โ28-12-2013 10:47 AM
@icyfroth wrote:
@lakeland27 wrote:it doesn't constitute a 'report' . it posts a headline, some figures , and doesn't explain how the figure are reached.
no need to debunk an article that doesn't actually say anything .
does that mean you can't find any?
anyone can just dismiss a report but without providing any counter credible material of your own, it just comes across as so much sour grapes. and you know what sour grapes are turned into, don't you?
yellow liquid.
on โ28-12-2013 10:50 AM
@lakeland27 wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@lakeland27 wrote:it doesn't constitute a 'report' . it posts a headline, some figures , and doesn't explain how the figure are reached.
no need to debunk an article that doesn't actually say anything .
does that mean you can't find any?
anyone can just dismiss a report but without providing any counter credible material of your own, it just comes across as so much sour grapes. and you know what sour grapes are turned into, don't you?
yellow liquid.
lol. ok, no argument there.
on โ28-12-2013 10:55 AM
@silverfaun wrote:The poor countries who are trying to pull themselves out of the dirt are not going to be able to afford expensive renewable & anyway renewables wouldn't even come within a hairs breadth to the amount of power needed.
China is introducing CO2 schemes, and building as many renewable power stations as they can as do other poor countries. Both USA and Germany are drastically increasing their solar capacities. Australia, with all that sunshine and other potentials for renewable energy is cutting the programs. We are going to end up paying for that in a big way.
on โ28-12-2013 11:05 AM
There is just no way solar panels and windmills will be able to sustain the level of power the world needs to keep functioning at it's current level.
It's a nice dream, but it's just that.
Nuclear energy would be the only alternative to fossil fuel, and much cleaner, but we all know the dangers of nuclear energy.
The world needs to stop using so much energy to produce rubbish!
on โ28-12-2013 11:15 AM
on โ28-12-2013 11:26 AM
Yes, we should reduce producing all that rubbish, and it will happen as soon as people stop buying it. But to say that we will never be able to harness solar, geothermal, wind and waves to produce enough power is just ignorant. But to be able to do that we need to try and improve the technologies. And that takes investment, which other countries are doing, and we were doing, but now we are shutting the industry down. That is like if some 100 years ago our ancestors said no to cars, because they are more expensive than horses.
on โ28-12-2013 11:41 AM
@spotweldersfriend wrote:
A senate committee was told in early 2013 that carbon emissions by power generators had dropped by 8.6% in the six months after carbon pricing was introduced.Care to comment Rupert?
care to elaborate?
Which senate committee?
Who did the telling?
any credible reference welcome!
on โ28-12-2013 12:03 PM
Yes, we should reduce producing all that rubbish, and it will happen as soon as people stop buying it. But to say that we will never be able to harness solar, geothermal, wind and waves to produce enough power is just ignorant.
Certainly it can produce some power, at huge expense of installations for capture, but not enough for those huge coal-gobbling factories overseas that produce endless amount of take-away containers, plastic garden chairs and drink bottles to keep up production.
But to be able to do that we need to try and improve the technologies. And that takes investment, which other countries are doing, and we were doing, but now we are shutting the industry down. That is like if some 100 years ago our ancestors said no to cars, because they are more expensive than horses.
Yes I agree with you there. Our government needs to invest in technology that will produce clean energy, not just blanket-tax large carbon emitters and throw the revenue raised at any given cause celebre of the day.
Something like the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme:
"The Scheme is in an area of 5,124 square kilometres (1,978 sq mi), almost entirely within the Kosciuszko National Park. The design of the scheme was modelled on the Tennessee Valley Authority. Over 100,000 people from over 30 countries were employed during its construction, providing employment for many recently arrived immigrants, and was important in Australia's post-war economic and social development. Seventy percent of all the workers were migrants. During construction of the tunnels, a number of railways were employed to convey spoil from worksites and to deliver personnel, concrete and equipment throughout"
and:
"At the completion of the project, the Australian Government maintained much of the diverse workforce and established the Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation (SMEC), which is now an international engineering consultancy company. The Scheme is the largest renewable energy generator in mainland Australia and plays an important role in the operation of the National Electricity Market generating approximately 67% of all renewable energy in the mainland National Electricity Market. The Snowy Scheme's primary function is as a water manager, however under the corporatised model must deliver dollar dividends to the three shareholder governments - the NSW, Commonwealth and Victorian Governments."
read more @ Wikipedia
โ28-12-2013 12:10 PM - edited โ28-12-2013 12:11 PM
@***super_nova*** wrote:Yes, we should reduce producing all that rubbish, and it will happen as soon as people stop buying it.
No way you're going to stop ppl buying it unless you can gag all the advertising and promotion done by the retailers who make fortunes out of trashing the planet with cheap throw-away junk.
on โ28-12-2013 01:47 PM
all you can do is educate . which with the state and standard of the most widely read news sources is unlikely to happen soon. media convergence review anyone ? :